ggpetrov
Forum Replies Created
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I am wondering what is NOT included there 😂
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I mix constantly during the cool down with a kitchen mixer. The time depends of the temperature. 35 degrees is the temperature that the emulsion is done. Me personally prefer to mix again the emulsion after 8 - 12 hours for 5 to 10 minutes.
You can put Olivem directly in the water phase along with the other ingredients. Just to note, that you have to put the gelling agent after the homogenization.
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Recently I was experimenting with the Tara gum as I have it already two years, but I didn’t have much success. Combined with the BTMS 50 or any other emulsifier it gives fantastic emulsions. I am talking about a great spreadability, silky softness, and a light film over the skin but it’s breathable. The trick is that it requires a lot of processing to prevent the snots like texture.
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There is nothing wrong with the Olivem 1000. It’s a fantastic emulsifier, and it’s standalone as well. That mean you don’t need a co-emulsifier, just because it already contain it. To make a light and low viscosity emulsion with Olivem 1000 you should try to put it in the water phase, and also to reduce the amount of the fats. Olivem acts as emollient as well, so you definitely don’t need so much oils. Try with 5% Olivem in the water phase, reduce the fats to 10% and homogenize well. Good luck 🙂
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I guess you’ve seen a Tara Lee’s video, where she makes a cream gel with Sodium Carbomer and uses an immersion blender? If so, don’t look at her videos. Sodium Carbomer should be added in the cool down phase, around 50-40 degrees, and should be incorporated by mixer ( I use a hand mixer). Homogenisation will break the gel network, for sure.
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Your formulation sounds like a nightmare! GS SE is weak when used alone, but it also gives a very pleasant emulsions. I use it a lot in my lotions, but always in combinations. For example GS SE + Ceteareth-25, or GS SE + Emulsan.
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There could be a lot of reasons. Olivem 1000 sometimes is a bit tricky, so it’s better to share your formula and workflow to get a proper advices. Also in my experience i’ve never had a sucsessful emulsion when I try to combine ethoxylated and non ethoxylated emulsifiers.
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I cannot give you a proper answer of your question, but I use Olivem 1000 in some of my products, and can give you some directions.
* At that level (2-2.5%) you need a proper gelling agent to stabilize the water phase. Me personally prefer to use 0.2% cosmetic grade xanthan + 0.3% Sodium carbomer.
* If you want to get a cream gel texture (without gelling agents) you need to increase the amount of Olivem 1000. The lowest point is 5% the maximum 10%.
* Olivem 1000 is very sensitive to temperature fluctuations. All of the ingredients during the emulsification should have similar temperatures. If not, the emulsion could break. If you need to add something that is not with the same temperature, do it below the 40 degrees.
* If you need to pair Olivem 1000, you can use Oliwax LC or Olivem 900 + Cetyl palmitate. They don’t give the same thickening as Cetyl / Cetearyl alcohol, but the haptical properties of the emulsions are amazing. I am talking about fast absorbing, extremely softening the skin, and no waxiness, no heavy feeling on the skin, compared to Cetyl / Cetearyl.
Hope this could helps 🙂
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I like the Sorbitol too. If the presence of electrolytes is not a problem, then you could try Sodium lactate or Sodium PCA.
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Aristoflex AVC is a pre-neutralized, which means that it should be processed gently. It can be homogenized for a short time at the lowest speed for better spreadability in the emulsion. You’d better use mixer instead.
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Ceteareth-20 is ethoxylated, but it presents in your list. Why?
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Manischemicals, Aurorasense, Youmakecosmetics - Greek sites. Glamourcosmetic - Italian. Alexmo cosmetic, Dragonspice - German.
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I think this discussion will be meaningless, because it’s a matter of taste rather than to have an objective arguments. About Montanov 202 I think it’s overprized and I can’t see anything special about this emulsifier.
Me personally, prefer to use very basic emulsifiers, which I can buy from anywhere, and also I prefer to make my own blends. -
If you are talking about a lotion/cream and if you use a high HLB emulsifier, you should use GMS to lower the HLB. It’s hard to explain but the lowering of the HLB makes the emulsions tactile softer and very pleasant. It’s a matter of experiment to get the exact percentage of the GMS, but avoid to use too much. Better start with something small - 1% for example.
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I think they are incomparable. Also it’s very strange that you get a thicker emulsion with the GMS. In my experience GMS tends to give a lower viscosity compared to Cetearyl alcohol.
At that percents I guess it’s a pretty heavy and unpleasant emulsion. GMS has a lower hlb value, and tends to lower the whole hlb of the emulsion. This leads to emulsion with a softer touch. Cetearyl alcohol creates a bit “heavier” emulsions, but with more driyer touch.
In my experience at levels above 2% both GSM and Cetearyl alcohol slows the absorption at all and have waxy and unpleasant touch on the skin.
Depending of the emulsifier, I usually use both in my emulsions. -
Can’t talk about the stand alone emulsifiers, but recently i am experimenting with the combination of Glyceryl stearate SE + Ceteareth 25 as a combo, and it gives a really dry feel. By saying this i mean very fast absorbing without sticky and oily feel, but meanwhile the skin is soft and hydrated.
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I can’t remember properly, but when ngarayeva001mentioned the site for the first time, I made a test purchase. I choose some esters and an emulsifier, if I remember the gross weight was about 2.5 kilograms, and the shipping was something about 80 euro, but the actual cost for the ingredients was about 30 euro. For example I usually buy ingredients from Greece with a shipping about 5 euro, and from Germany for about 6-7 euro. As you can see the difference is brutal, also I can live perfectly without the exotic ingredients from Thailand.
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Me personally, can’t afford the shipping costs. Some time ago I placed a test order, and when I got the shipping prise I almost got a hearth attack. The price was far beyond the cost of the overall order, so I cancelled it. If that matters I live in Bulgaria.
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From the Evonik’s formulations guidelines, i’ve noticed that the heating temperature has a correlation with the percentage of the water. If the formula is for cream then the melting temperature is lower, if we make a lotion with high water content, then the melting temperature is higher. I generally heat the oil phase to 85-90 degrees in a microwave oven, just to be sure that everything is melted properly.
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marimaster_3991 said:@chemicalmatt thank you! I actually thought of using ceteareth-20, but since it comes with cetearyl alcohol I got insecure about the viscosity it would get. I’m looking for a fluid lotion physical aspect.
Then you can use Glyceryl stearate & PEG 100 stearate. It doesn’t give any viscosity, so you can play with the other consistency modificators.
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Just a correction, the collagen and the elastin aren’t cells, they are structural proteins.
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Abdullah said:Phenoxyethanol is volatile and some of will evaporate in high temperature, if added too early at product specially in large batches.
Where did you read this?
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The type of emulsifiers to which Olivem belongs, require a high shear mixing, also this is needed when you use a natural polymers like xanthan gum. I think the forcing of the cool down is wrong, I think you should give the emulsion a time to cool down naturally. Yes it takes time, but there are factors that require this. The haptics of the emulsion as well as the stability are related with the processing method. The initial homogenizing should be continued with a low shear mixing until cool down. That way the emulsion will get a nice and smooth texture, and also this is important when working with a natural emulsifiers.
Regarding the oil phase, you can keep it off course, but when using butters than the consistency will be thicker. At least with the Olivem. Have you considered to use a mineral oil / petrolatum / more glycerin? Generally speaking you cannot achieve the same result as Lotion Pro with the Olivem. Better try another emulsifier.
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Depending of what you are trying to achieve, there are different options to avoid the using of Olivem. It’s expensive, yes. But the haptics of Olivem when it’s used properly are incomparable with the Lotion pro ones. Me personally find it too heavy and waxy on the skin, no matter of the workflow and the fat phase. But that’s my opinion.
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Usually the workflow is different. But I can’t imagine why you need a co emulsifier for Olivem 1000 since it’s a stand alone one, and it already contains a fat phase stabilizers. Also you are using a proper gelling agent, aren’t they both sufficient?
