Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Elegant water gelling agent for cationic emulsions……

  • Elegant water gelling agent for cationic emulsions……

    Posted by Graillotion on April 16, 2024 at 2:28 am

    I am a little late to the party….but recently found an emulsifying system I like, where I incorporate as part of the emulsification system, a cationic emulsifier.

    As I believe all of my collection of water gelling agents are anionic….I am at ground zero. Therefore I need to purchase a water gelling agent that is either non-ionic…or cationic/compatible.

    I am familiar with some of them….of which I generally would not tag them as elegant. 😂

    Has anyone found a water gelling agent for this type product….that you actually feel like…it ‘enhances’ the haptics of the formula?

    Waiting to hear.

    Graillotion replied 2 weeks, 6 days ago 6 Members · 12 Replies
  • 12 Replies
  • jemolian

    Member
    April 16, 2024 at 3:27 am

    Are there a lot of cationic gelling agents that are available from repackers? I think the only one i saw was Cosmedia Ultragel 300 (Inci: Polyquaternium-37) unless i missed out.

  • chemicalmatt

    Member
    April 16, 2024 at 10:03 am

    HI there @Graillotion Polyquaternium-37 is your best bet for rheology enhancement, i.e. my personal fave Synthalen CR from 3V Sigma USA, or the Kleasol line from Rheolab (UK). There are others, most having similar viscosity outcomes, similar sensorial haptics but differing in clarity of the gel. If a clear product is no issue then the world is your oyster. Polyquaternium-32 is second banana here, the precursor to PQ-37.

    • Abdullah

      Member
      April 16, 2024 at 11:12 am

      In my experience LGN emulsions with cationic emulsifiers like BTMS or BTAC are very stable without any water phase stabilizer.

      @chemicalmatt what do you think about cationic guar for this purpose?

    • Graillotion

      Member
      April 17, 2024 at 1:20 am

      Seems like the only place I can get small MOQ on PQ-37 is out of Thailand.

      I was hoping for some electrolyte tolerance….and possibly this is a concern with PQ-37?

      What do you think of any of the 3rd banana option below? Who would you pick….haptics / electrolyte tolerance / enhanced emulsion stability …. this is what I can get small MOQ.

      Solagum Tara

      HEC

      HP Starch (Hydroxypropyl starch phosphate)

      Guar cat?

      @chemicalmatt

  • Trytryagain

    Member
    April 16, 2024 at 2:39 pm

    If you like the skin feel (or is this hair conditioner?) of the conditioning aspect the cationics give, I have used cationic guar with BTMS50 and it was nice, no stability issues. Also HEC is non ionic.

    • Abdullah

      Member
      April 16, 2024 at 8:04 pm

      Does is just feel nice or increase the stability too?

      • Trytryagain

        Member
        April 17, 2024 at 7:59 am

        Both, adds to the conditioning feel and gels water phase.

  • Trytryagain

    Member
    April 16, 2024 at 2:49 pm

    and btw the only reason I asked if this is an emulsion for skin or hair conditioner is because I would never have guessed that @graillotion would like the skin feel/ haptics of a cationic emulsion 😅

    • Graillotion

      Member
      April 16, 2024 at 3:08 pm

      It is actually an emulsified deo. Since the pH is in the 3’s…. I was having issues with run of the mill emulsifiers. So, after lots of research, I went with a Montanov type….and 1% of active cationic….and found the perfect balance.

      However…I am trying to parley this into a face cream as well. I got some leakage when I went to the more intense face cream formula….so want to add a water gelling agent…and see if this fixes issues. The deo had a kiss of Monolauren….and maybe that kiss of low HLB….is the missing link….to prevent my issue.

      • Trytryagain

        Member
        April 16, 2024 at 3:34 pm

        Nice! I hope you find the perfect water gelling agent to solve the issue.

  • ggpetrov

    Member
    April 28, 2024 at 1:20 pm

    Recently I was experimenting with the Tara gum as I have it already two years, but I didn’t have much success. Combined with the BTMS 50 or any other emulsifier it gives fantastic emulsions. I am talking about a great spreadability, silky softness, and a light film over the skin but it’s breathable. The trick is that it requires a lot of processing to prevent the snots like texture.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      April 29, 2024 at 4:18 am

      I made the formula yesterday….swapping the VS EQ 65 with SPDMA, and had excellent results…without a gelling agent.

      Let me toss a little stress at it…and see where I end up. 😉

Log in to reply.