chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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@suswang8 what you are experiencing is the age-old dilemma of gear-drive versus direct-drive mixer utility. The direct drive units do not have the pumping capacity that the gear-drive ones do, but they can spin at much faster speeds. When flowing - good, when viscous - not so good. It is best to employ both, like a high-speed Lightnin’ direct drive and a gear drive unit like a Glas-Col.
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@ketchito is spot on. Trust me, it’s the Guar HPTC all along, though I don’t know the nature of “vegesilk.” The cheaper grades of guar HPTC will always flake. Throw a better plasticizer in there, like…wait for it…glycerine. (I hate it when glycerin wins!)
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Sunflower lecithin is higher in phosphatidyl serine than the typical soya-based stuff. Never used it myself, but that may be a hindrance. You want to use the liquid dispersion and not much of it either: 1.0 - 1.5% is plenty with 10% oil load. Add glycerin and a diol (PG or BG) to the water and mix well while hot. Good luck.
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@Abdullah the GMO does not like to support LLC formation like GMS does, so negative on that. The GMS alone may support with certain emulsifier combinations, but not a singular one like you describe. I’ve always used this ratio for LLC network formation: cetyl alcohol : glyceryl stearate @ 3:1. Seems to work even with those #%$@!! glycosides. The other “hack” with LLC is slow mixing while slow cooling. Too much shear at too steep a thermocline and you end up with soup.
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Your problem is called recrystallization and is common with butters. The answer to this very common problem is simple: add a polyglyceryl fatty acid ester (PEFA) to this formula, preferably a multi ester such as Polyglyceryl -4 Diisostearate or Polyglyceryl-6 Octastearate. Both are used in food science to avoid the very same problem. IF you cannot get hold of any the next best thing is this “hack”: use hydrogenated lecithin. Lends an icky sensorial compared to to the silky one the PEFA contributes, but it usually works.
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Lots of questions here…I am flooded…but here goes:
Affirmative, use vegetable shortening (hydrogenated vegetable oil) in your formula; edible grade works same as cosmetic grade; there is no difference; it is very comedogenic. -
@Abdullah: outstanding choices there my friend. The polyglyceryl fatty acid esters (PEFA) make the best sprayable emulsions.
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How often have I said this: friends don’t let friends abuse glycerin. Too many formulators are co-dependent with it (“glyceroholics” maybe?) and there needs to be an intervention. LOSE THE GLYCERIN, all it does is reduce viscosity and foam (you do want some right?) then rinses away into the sewer because glycerin would much prefer to be an effluent than a hydrator, moisturizer, humectant, whatever. Heat 70% deionized water up to 75C, then add the CAPB and use MORE of that because it is a hydrotrope: makes things like SCG and all those fatty acids get along well with water. Then under very slow mixing add the SCG and mix until dissolved. Now add your copious builders, then the cationic polymer leaving pH at 7.0 or higher lest those fatty acids ppt out. A touch of Kathon CG & Versene 100 there and you’re set. Also, @Abdullah has a point: reduce the SCG and increase the CAPB and you’ll feel better afterwards. I’d like to know the identity of this supplier so I can call ’em up and give ’em a what fer’.
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Lecithin makes gloop. Gloop doesn’t atomize well for sprays. Get rid of the lecithin, try Plan B.
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The short answer to your question is: yes, that shampoo will not clean as efficiently. Conditioning shampoos with cationic polymers (anionic xanthan is not advised) are by their nature dilution-deposition systems so some soil will join the coacervate upon rinsing off. This is why brands that are heavily into hair conditioning liquid products for the salon trade offer “clarifying shampoos” that feature no thickening polymers or any other agents other than surfactant detergents, but a healthy amount of disodium EDTA to aid in soil pick-up. I will offer that acrylic thickeners do act as anti-deposition aids (I formulate these into laundry detergents for this reason), but even those will reduce real cleansing somewhat.
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That “slurry technique” has always annoyed me. Add the HEC to water first, mix well for 30 minutes or more then hydrate/gel with a bit of NaOH. Next add the xanthan gum and let it hydrate. You now have your gel base. Proceed from there, adding sodium HYA, then SalAc at pH 6.0 - 7.0 until all is dissolved. Assuming you have some polyols in there to maintain SalAc dissolution, carefully lower the pH with lactic acid 88% to pH3.5 -4.0. You say 10% AHA? Good luck with that.
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I’d think you want sex to heat up not cool down. Any interest in using the Zeolites from Grace in an oil or silicone base? They warm up nicely when wetted.
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@WarrenChemist, I think you first need to see how your formulation plays on the vibraphone, then a reading on the vibrometer, then of course use it in the bedroom with the…you know where I’m going there.
This is a tough one though. Suspending those crystals - no problem, but sourcing them? Good luck, brother. -
Simply put: uncoated zinc oxide SPF products will report lower SPF upon aging than coated ZnO used. TiO2 behaves similarly but not as much delta-SPF. Neither will react with/affect other ingredients as their chemical catalytic activity is smaller than, say, platinum. This is the conundrum we face: the organics are more stable (when formulated correctly), easier to work with, more ubiquitous, have better sensorial properties and more supply sources; yet FDA and the coral reef watchers make using them a difficult decision.
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I may have you all beat here: Columbus Vegetable Oils in DesPlaines IL (Chicago) http://www.cvoils.com sells oils, even organics, in gallon to tankwagon quantities and they will beat the price of others by a WIDE margin, even factoring shipping costs from Chicago. They did ship small orders UPS Ground domestically, hopefully they still do. JEdwards is also aces in my book and they do have a wider selection, but I’ve been backordered many times with those guys.
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@Zahra, obtain some C12-15 alkyl benzoate. That will dissolve Red #17 for pink color and will bridge the argan oil and UV filter with your cyclomethicones since it is miscible with both. That UV filter better be a liquid one however. Maybe use less, huh?
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Thanks for the 411 @Graillotion. I will posit however that the triethyl citrate is doing the deodorizing heavy lifting in that blend. Sage smells nice though.
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@Zara The numbers still do not lend themselves to activity (solids) of your cleanser system. I’ll glean here. The amphoterics are both 30 -35% active so you have ~8.0% solids there. The two anionics from Innospec are both 40% active so ~3.2% there, the glucosides are usually 50% active so 2.0% there. So we have ~ 13 - 14% solids in surfactants, the remaining components fragrance, preservative, etc. Does that sound accurate? If so, then take @Abdullah suggestion and drop the glycoside, it doesn’t work nearly as well in detergency. Both the amphos and the anionics are redundant with respect to each other’s partner, so trim down to:
Iselux LQ-CLR @ 20% (8% active)
Sodium Lauroamphoacetate 35% @ 16% (5.5% active)
Add an alkanolamide at 2% and you should have a better result. -
Looking to solubilize all that essential oil? 30% w/w of the total? Nothing I know of will do that task. Best solubilizer I know is PolySugaMulse D9 from Colonial Chemical and you’d still need at least 3X that to do this. Solution: tell your client this will be an anhydrous tonic and inform them the meaning of “anhydrous”; then you’ll have a clear path to success, and yes, pun intended there.
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Affirmative: add the alklaline agent (AMP, TEA, tromethamine) first to the water, then add the Ultrahold, being careful how much to use: check the solubility/neutraliziation constraints first. Then dissolve 100% before adding PVP/VA. PVP/VA will compete with your acrylic polymer for water so using too much will salt out the acrylic even if 100% dissolved. Another case here of “less is more.” Then again, I’m a loyal Amphomer guy when it comes to hair fixation. BASF doesn’t need any more money from likes of me.
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Affirmative.
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@gdabain bloom testing, eh? That is for food techs and chocolate formulators, so look into ASTM methods for foods. I will tell you how to prevent it though: add a polyglyceryl fatty acid multi ester such as Caprol ET from Abitec (Polyglcyeryl-6 Octastearate). Good old lecithin works too but the Caprol ET adds a far nicer sensorial and is totally edible as virtually all PEFA are. These came from the food industry. Polyglyceryl-3 Diisostearate and Olive Oil Polyglcyeryl-6 Esters are good PEFA for this too. I cannot think of a worse sensorial than lecithin: yuuucck! Gives me the creeps every time I touch it. BTW, in cosmetic science we call this “retarding recrystallization of butters” instead of “retarding bloom” just to stay clear of the food tech folks.
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@rrthae you are best off heeding advice of @ketchito there. Order of addition - regardless of anionic - is: amphoteric / alkanolamide / anionic. The amphoteric (coco-betaine here) is a hydrotrope. Hydrotropes help materials that don’t like water, such as SCI, to like water more than they would without it. Sounds confusing? No worries, I sometimes confuse myself.
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@Camel Understood there, you are not purchasing commercial quantities yet. @Chemist77 TEA 99% will form a clear gel with any carbomer when neutralized to pH 6.5 - 7.5, Tromethamine (TRISamino from ANGUS) probably behaves best, but for clarity check the “Transmittance at 425nm” data on the TDS of the carbomer. In all my years I never considered gel clarity a big deal, but marketing peeps do so there it is. @Urbanxt you are either a neophyte formulator or smoking some powerful ganja these days: PVP is a hair fixative polymer, not an antiseptic - at least not here. You are no doubt thinking of povidone-iodine, where it is used as a conveyance for iodine, the actual antiseptic. Camel is using it here to style the hair and he/she is using too much of it too. 1.00% PVP K-90 is plenty enough to do the job. Camel should reduce the PEG-40HCO and fragrance way down also. This gel as written will have your hair standing straight up and smelling from a city block away.
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Store it the same way we ship it: inside a 3-mil bag tightly closed by zip-tie within a sturdy cardboard box taped shut. Store off the floor if possible so dampness won’t seep in.