chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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@ketchito has granted you good guidance here. Nearly all of those oils will smoke and likely decompose when heated with a straightening iron/tourmaline iron. This is one reason why silicones have been so effective in these mediums - lubricity & shine being the other. I would sub in esters for all those botanicals and the alkane. These have high bp and do not smoke. You’ll need to experiment with mixtures to get the right mix of lubricity and shine, but you’ll get there eventually. Pentaerythritol tetraisostearate and diisostearyl malate would be a good place to start.
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This is a tough one here. You were smart to include the silicones and that should fend off any humidity affects. I can only point to that cassia polyquat. That is likely hygroscopic in solid state. On the other hand, maybe all the cationic salts here are hygroscopic in solid state? Would adding more dimethicone help?
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Your phase separation issue might be due to all the BKC quat you have in there (why?), since cationics do not play well with CMC or metasilicate salts. This is a floor cleaner not a hospital sanitizer right? Try BIT instead or just Kathon, its cousin. I also see so much redundancy here: so many glycols in one place, why? These serve no purpose. This cries out for a glycol ether however. Ever hear of Dowanol glycol ethers? That’s the solvent strategy you need.
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This is what is called a spherulite cleanser system wherein the oils (note all that soybean oil) is encapsulated in liquid state by fatty acids in spherule vesicles. These reside suspended within the larger surfactant mixture where they will not affect foam or viscosity as they normally would. Lauric acid is the preferred medium, stearic a distant second. My curiosity here extends to the presence of hydroxystearic acid. That serves only to thicken lipids. The Unilever peeps must know something that I don’t have time for figuring out here, I guess.
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@Pharma is mainly right on here, lamellar liquid crystal (LLC) formation stabilizes oil-in-water emulsions pretty much exclusively and the builders fatty alcohols and glyceryl esters accommodate this as we all know. Invert emulsions like w/o and w/Si are an entirely different story: its upside down world like that Stranger Things TV series. Those same builders will destabilize these, and your o/w nemesis salt will stabilize them, as will having a high internal (disperse) phase. Upside down, right? Also pays to remember that virtually all invert emulsions are intrinsically unstable thermodynamically. Place the sample in an incubator for ACC testing and you’ll rarely see 60 days intact without a rheology additive in there.
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You are advised to DEL the stearic acid and substitute 12-hydroxystearic acid @5.0% in its place. You will see a little more suspension property since you will see much more thickening.
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You may not need to run USP<51> PET testing on those anhydrous products, but HRIPT safety testing will be needed, especially in light of the newest MoCRA statute and 100% needed if you are exporting to UK, EU, China, etc. Even without state-inspired requirements, remember it is the litigators you need to look out for more than the regulators.
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The descriptors are defined by the testing agency, there is no definitive standard lexicon as far as I know. I found it best to keep the language as simple as possible so as to keep test subject clarity in mind.
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Polyglyceryl esters of fatty acids will do this task. E.g. Polyglyceryl-6 oleate, polyglcyeryl-6 laurate, polyglyceryl-10 laurate, etc.
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Polyglyceryl esters of fatty acids prevent recrystalization of shea, cocoa and all other butters. Try Polyglyceryl-6 Oleate or Polyglyceryl-3 Polyricinoleate. The food techs have been using these for decades for same reason. Bonus: as surfactants, they assist in wash-off later whether on your hair or on your clothes. Also these are edible. Safe as can be whether the bunny thing applies or not.
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Affirmative. Same chemistry, just not always repeat results like the pro’s get.
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My opinion only here: get the 3 core surfactants and leave out the 2 redundant ones. The taurate and coco-glucoside are redundant. Iselux LQ-CLR, CAPB, lauryl glucoside are all you’ll need. Use at 1:1:1 ratio solid-state for good viscosity build sulfate-free.
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hakem, the proteins are making this “tacky” or sticky as you have felt. This formula will not mist or spray, only stream from nozzle, because you have two polymers in here: guar HPTC and polyquaternium-7. Polymers do not like to atomize in sprays. The dilemma for you: those are the best detanglers in your formula! Take out and not much detangler. Make this a serum, not spray, and reduce those proteins. If not, take out polymers and spray on as “hair treatment”.
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@fotis83 You are referring to SugaNate 160NC from Colonial Chemical, absolutely one of the best renewable anionics out there. It is a 40% active surfactant and works like a champ in building shampoos, cleansers, body washes. Purchasing by the drum, it is not all that expensive either. (Pail? that is another story.) FYI everyone in North America: Colonial just started a small-scale supply chain outlet named The Surfactant Store where you may purchase lesser quantities of their surfactants. I know I sound like I’m selling for them, but I do not work there, just done business with Colonial for 25 years or so and have a chemist pal Dennis Abbeduto leading their personal care division.
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@evchem2 here is a starter doc I use as a good reference. Mark Chandler’s ACT Solutions Corp is one of the stellar sensory evaluation labs in the USA, if that is where you hang your fedora, and they have reasonable costs too. http://www.actsolutionscorplab.com
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That “40%” moniker refers to the stearic acid used to make the ester, that grade being the typical food grade or soapers grade stearic (~50% C16/C18). That is the GMS to use as a builder for 99% of your formulations and why it is most common and least expensive. That 90% C18OOH is deo grade, and I have to think you’d buy the glyceryl ester made of it on special order. Sounds like George Deckner may have been overthinking this or needed to use up his word count.
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Achh, those enzymes are blotchy, too pH dependent for my taste. I’ll recommend triethyl citrate and ethylhexylglycerin (Sensiva SC-50 or clone) at 1.0% each and a really nice fragrance at 1.0% also. No worries about pH or chemical coordination there either.
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“Biokelp”? Is there another kind? I’m with @ketchito here, not enough formula intel to weigh in on and nothing you mention will provide the “slip.” You are at somewhat a disadvantage in that this product must atomize (read: spray on, not stream from nozzle) ruling out most polymers. One ingredient that fits the bill will be Glossamer L6600, a natural copolymer that will spray, add gloss and some lubricity. Not knowing your locale, I can only tell you Coast Southwest supplies this in the USA.
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@Stell we would need a bit more intel than what you divulge here. E.g. Is this gel based on carbomer? Did you use a straight PEG with it also? This could take a while.
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I do not suggest using Carpopol, Sepigel or any other acrylic here. Your issue is CAPB always carries 5.0% sodium chloride, so you are attempting to overcome 1.25% NaCl, which will affect all acrylic thickeners and even HEC. Hydroxypropyl methylcellulose (HPMC) is your best bet, as @Bill_Toge suggests, although lowering all that CAPB, the salt it carries, and all the glucoside will help a LOT. @Abdullah is correct: those glucoside surfactants crash HEC and many other cellulosics including HPMC! Sugar & cellulose do not like each other? Who knew? (Also, what’s with that glycerin in a surfactant cleansing product? How many times must I rant on about this?! STOP this madness!!)
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IF you have an oven and a KitchenAid Mixer, spread it out on a steel baking sheet, roast at 200F for an hour or so then break it up in batches with the mixer with the dough kneading attachment. You should be able to break it up enough to add & wet out in water alone with added time on the Lightnin’ mixer, plus a tiny bit of acid added to the water. Hope this helps.
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Silica (it is ALL natural, BTW, even when treated or fumed) will not lower viscosity in oil-based formulations, it will THICKEN them, so you may want to stop right there. However, if the goal is to add suspension (yield value) to your product intending to suspend another ingredient, then use silylated hydrated silica and lots of shear and heat to get it incorporated with your oils before adding any other component. Once accompished then reducing oily sensorial is a simple task: add light esters and/or rice powder to this and “feel the silk.” All this assumes you have no water phase involved, only oils.
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Nice synapsis @MarkBroussard. I agree this basically harmonizes the USA with the rest of the liberal market capital democracies like the EU & China. I will predict the testing agencies doing HRIPT will be making lots of coin in the years to come. Likewise for the labs performing USP<51> PET testing for all those online Clean Beauty “stealth” brands.
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Affirmative. When you are using in the shower, this formula leaves behind an oil film on your body. Dimethicone works the best. You may have seen these advertised as “lotion body washes” and I seem to remember Unilever having patent rights way back when.
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<div>Mainly same as for ethoxylates, only polyglyceride is now the hydrophile. Remember that the carbonyl is calculated as part of the lipophile not hydrophile.</div>
Best to use the mass ratio method:
HLB = [HPMP ÷ 5]
where HPMP = hydrophile mass percentage
methylene = 14, glyceride group = 74, methyl = 15, glycol end group = 91, carbonyl = 28
For Polyglyceryl-6 Stearate:
Hydrophile mass = [(5 * 74) + (1 * 91] = 461
Hydrophobe mass = [(16 * 14) + (1 * 15) + (1 * 28)] = 267
HLB = [(461 ÷ 728) *100] ÷ 5 = 12.6
Best to state as approximation…HLB » 12.5