chemicalmatt
Forum Replies Created
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@Cafe33 I’ll second the recommendation from @ketchito . Although cationic silicone adheres to keratin better than any other, if you combine 1000 cst. dimethicone with a behenyl quat like behentrimonium chloride, you will get a similar effect. If haircolor retention is your game, then add a small amount of polyquaternium-37 and a UV absorber and there you have it. Consider this a formulation hack. We are full of them; just ask us anytime.
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<div>I’m unsure what kind of “hair stick” was being discussed before (polyquat-10, polyquat-7 and proteins are only for water-borne hair products) but here is the original one, which I had a hand in creating. Over 25 years on the market and still going! Go for it.</div>
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I’ve never seen amodimethicone microemulsion (the CETAC one, I presume?) used in that application before @Abdullah The “classic” approach is straight up dimethicone, preferable a higher MW like 10,000 cst., which I’m betting is what @ketchito used. The classic stabilizer for this in a shampoo system is always sodium xylene sulfonate at a low level, like 0.20 - 0.50% solid state. The commercial stuff is 40% active. If this already works, then no need to fix it, although dimethicone costs less and works better.
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The ingredient chemistry you want to use here is the same one the food techs use to address this very same problem: polyglyceryl esters of fatty acids - preferable multi-esters such as polyglceryl-6 octastearate - will prevent recrystallization and sweating from butters and waxes. Just swap out the polysorbate-80 for one of these. BTW, “blooming” is the trade term the chocolatiers use for this phenomenon. I know: I’m just full of senseless trivia to share with y’all.
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Micellar waters are a new marketing name for an old application. Be advised MOST of the micellar water products on the market are not finished products but simply conveyances for botanical extracts applied as ingredients for skin care. I did not know these were being applied as facial cleansers, a poor application in my book. This rings of gimmickry. Facial cleansers are of two types. Oil based for cosmetic makeup removal, water/surfactant based for daily mild cleansing. If you needed 4 wipes to remove something in aqueous media, there’s evidence of a formulator exceeding their level of competence.
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@fareloz Not only are Polyquats used in conditioning shampoos but these are the original dilution-deposition polymers applied for this purpose. Polyquaternium-10 and Polyquat-7 and their analogs are the best ones to use. (Guar HPTC users may dispute that claim, but they’ll be itchin’ fer a fight if they do????) For these to coacervate in anionic shampoo/body wash systems you do need to include an amphoteric also, preferably a cocoamphoacetate or dipropionate ampho at solids range 1:2 with your anionics.
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@Herbnerd Do you have any safety assessment on the glycolipids being used? These are relatively new surfactants in the supply chain. Also how do these taste? I know the polyglycerol esters have been used extensively in food products as solubilizer-emulsifiers and have a longstanding safety profile.
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@Umesh what specifically is the problem you are having? Can you share with us a problem statement? Only anomaly I see is EDTA. Why is a chelant needed where so many minerals are added?
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My understanding is 2.0% topically applied anywhere is the limit. Weirdly, wart removers are allowed up to 17.0%.
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Unsure of the problem statement here. Can you clarify? You allude to waterless formulation yet also mention a foamer canister dispenser for water-based products. Is this product non-aqueous or aqueous or an aerosol?
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CETAC is redundant. You already have two superior quaternary alkyl compounds in there, both which add emulsification and hair sensorial conditioning. CETAC functions quite well as an inexpensive cationic emulsifier. As for conditioning: meh!
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I am unsure of the problem statement here. What is the specific concern or dilemma?
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Are you certain that settling is not due to the mineral(s)? Without a rheology additive, those will always settle eventually. That being said, I have to believe that triethyl citrate and squalane are not miscible for the very reason you mention. If it is one of these lipids settling, then try a coupler ester like coco caprylate or dibutyl adipate.
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Rapidgel EZ-1 from 3V Sigma USA will do the job handily. This is the acrylic crosspolymer many folks used during the alcohol hand sanitizer bonanza in 2020 - 2021. It is associative so a little goes far if there are fatty alcohol builders involved in your formula.
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Add the BTMS to the water phase directly at 85 - 90C. Once dissolved/dispersed, then add remaining surfactants, lipids, builders in that order or as a separate oil phase. Cool slowly and mix slowly while cooling. Adding CETAC is not advisable, nor is homogenizing. Best way to crash a cationic emulsion: high shear. If you must add STPDMA, not a bad idea, add the neutralizing acid to the water and BTMS liquid first, then add the STPDMA with the oil phase or even directly allowing plenty of time to melt/blend/neutralize. Lactic acid works way better than citric acid too.
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A couple of considerations here. Which hormone are you delivering? Progesterone? Progesterone acetate? Other? Prog acetate will be lipid-soluble, while Prog natural more water dispersible with a logP< 5. Also, pentylene glycol and ethoxydiglycol are superior penetration aids to the others. As for amping up concentration, remember your system will always have a capacity limitation, so even 10% may be more than enough, the rest “left on the table” so to speak and hormones are very expensive, right?
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That would be a good guess, especially if those biphasics are lipid/aqueous. NaCl will usually destabilize standard colloidal systems. Honestly, I don’t quite “get” these, and they pop up as gimmicks from time to time.
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I’ll second Mark’s reply here, adding that you are not to “formulate” liposomes so much as “fabricate” them. Once fabricated then you may formulate with them. As Mark says, the right equipment - and reagents - are needed. How comfortable are you handling ethyl ether? Blows up real good, I hear.
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If you are formulating products for distribution outside the USA, Canada, and Australia/NZ, then Tinosorb M is a good UVA/UVB absorber. It also stabilizes avobenzone well. As my esteemed colleague mentions however, it has never been approved by the US FDA for use here. Bummer!
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@Pharma you are so on it there. Kudos to you. Best humectant known to mankind: a swim. Now, @tinas you are no doubt experiencing what happens when you try to use glycerin in a detergent cleansing formula such as body wash? Am I right? Here’s the answer: NOTHING. Glycerin wants to be an effluent in that situation, not a humectant. Use a polyglyceryl ester or the Old School PEG-7 glyceryl cocoate or even polyquaternium-7 or 10.
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Close but no cigar there. Adding the HPMC to a spare amount of really hot water is the correct first step, but the next step is to then slowly add cold water until it hydrates and forms a gel. THEN you can add your other stuff, but not too much of the soap. Too much electrolyte will crash these cellulosics. Happy trails, friend.
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Here’s a cheap hack for you. Buy Argo corn starch from the store, mix it with some sorbitol 70% and a little plasticizer-detackifier like propylene glycol or butylene glycol, dissolve all in water or water-ethanol (Everclear from the liquor store) then apply to the hair, style and see what happens. Ya need to heat it up to affect hydration of starch, just like making Chinese stir-fry.
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This depends on your application, as so often is the case. Whassup with your formula vector? The guar HPTC is indicated for dilution-deposition of dimethicone and polyquats in hair care shampoos and conditioners. The starch HPTC is used more as a fixative for hair styling products. Neither is great at thickening formulations, if that is any help.
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@fareloz is right to suggest using saccharide gums, although even some of these can diminish in viscosity with time at low pH. Historically we used nonionic alkyl ethoxylates (e.g. Ceteareth-12, Steareth-2) to make emulsions at extreme ends of the pH scale. If you don’t mind that dreaded “-eth” in your LOI, that is.
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I’ve been leaning towards genome-centered studies as of late. Genemarkers (Kalamazoo, MI, USA) has developed some amazing methods to validate outcomes of product application. It is a new science but I think will be the future of claims substantiation.