[Aziz]

smok said:

what do you think if you try TEA  INSTEAD OF NAOH

Do you know the price difference . 

[Aziz]

Hi , I am using a ten dollar pH meter . Its name is ATC , china . At first I was in doubt , if it will work or not . I calibrate it as per mannual , now it is woorking fine , Acuracy is + -  .1 pH . 

[Aziz]

Perry said:

That depends on what you specifically mean by “formaldehyde”, where you are selling it, and what level you want to use it at.  However, I doubt you’ll get much color protection but you could test it.

For colour protection from UV , Benzophenon is used  , I am using Benzophenon 4 . 
My experience is , if  tap water is used , colour may change periodically and at high pH colour will change . Using DM water he can over come this colour problem . 
For UV protection Benzophenon 4 can be used . 

[Aziz]

I am an organic chemist , making hand wash , dish wash , shower gel etc. Here I have to compete with the products of Liver and brands like Dettole , Savlon , Vim etc. People compare with these products . 
1. I suffer same experience like you . Unfortunatly one batch of my dish wash was changing colour periodically , I tested pH  exceed 12  . I find out the coz , I used tap water and this was the cause of pH and colour change . 
2. In hand wash formulation you should not use NaOH and LABSA . Price diffrence with SLES is not so high . So use SLES , at least a small percent of CAPB to reduce stringy effect and surely small percent of glycerin or sorbitol .
3. If you are in a competative market , you have to make your formula thicker , to do this you can use pre hydrated Xanthane gum . 

So an economy formula may like this 
1. SLES 
2. CAPB
3. EDTA
4.Citric Acid(to adjust pH )
5.Sodium benzoate (preservative)
6.Sorbitol
7.NaCl
8. Xenthene gum
9. Perfume
10. DM Water 
If DM water is not possible , pass your water through 3 to 5 stage strainer or RO plant . 
To make viscous without gum , solid percent of SLES , CAPB ,CDEA should be 13 to 15% . 
If you have no headache about viscosity , you can reduce the percent of solid . 
Do some reserch and make your own formula . 

[Aziz]

MurtazaHakim said:

The material safety data sheet of “Fairy” a dishwashing liquid from P&G states the pH of 9. What I reckon is that at pH of 7 the cleansing action will not be sufficient.

Is it a hand wash formula or a dish wash formula ? You are warking with a so large quantity , have you no chemist ? 

[Aziz]

chemicalmatt said:

Any hard surface cleaner, which includes liquid dishwash, will be best at pH>9.0 Irritation doesn’t occur until you get into the pH 12 range, remember how dilute the working liquid is. Also, cleaning criteria can be a function of pH, I do not agree with Aziz there. Saponified systems will clean MUCH better at pH 11 than at pH 8. 

Hi , With the increase of pH cleaning power increase . That does not mean you can formulate with only a 2 to 5% NaOH , which has a very high pH . You can’t make a dish washing liquid with it though it has a very high pH . The criteria of your formulation will be decided by the ingredients you use in it , not only by pH alone , though a higher pH clearly increase the cleaning power . That is my point . 

[Aziz]

ozgirl said:

Benzalkonium Chloride is not compatible with SLES or any other anionics. You will need to find a different preservative if you want to use SLES.

Is sodium benzoate not enogh as preservative in dish wash liquid ? Is MPS compatable along with Sodium benzoate ?

[Aziz]

Fekher said:

@Aziz even  lower then 7 can work if level of surfctants is good . For ph higher then 8 it can cause irritation for hands.

Yes , I am agree with you . Cleaning criteria does not decided by pH , it is decided by ingredients used in it . For dish wash recomended pH is 8 to 10.. Yesterday I mades a batch and it’s pH was 8.1  My choice is 8 to 9 . 

[Aziz]

Fekher said:

@Mrkhan i think slighty basic will be the best between 7 and 8 .

May it be between 8 to 10 ? 7 is neutral , will with that pH dish wash work fine ? 

[Aziz]

Perry said:

Typically, hair products have a lower pH…say 5.0 - 5.5.  

Hi Perry , I read in ‘ Pouchers cosmetics and perfume ‘ pH of hair products should be between 5.5 to 6.2  . 

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

 Then Add CAPB in the very end and adjust the pH. Looking at the combination of surfactants that you have, I think you don’t need any salt.

Without salt is it possible to achieve ultimate thickness . To consumers , thicker is better and thickest is the best . In case of hand wash , shower gel , shampoo etc consumers choose the thickest one , they don’t look at how much better ingredients inside the bottle . 

[Aziz]

I heard In a video , where Perry said that , even if you don’t use water in a formulation you should use preservative , coz formulation may be contaminated by a wet finger . 
Please don’t follow Youtubers , follow only qualified Chemists or a qualified person in this field . 

[Aziz]

Dr Catherine Pratt said:

Xanthan Gum

If I use Xanthan gum , should I use any special preservative to inhibit microbial growth ?

[Aziz]

Hi , I read all comments , most of them don’t come to your point . 
Just use Acid slurry instead of LABSA and I hope you will get a crystal clear transparent gel . I also faced this problem . 

[Aziz]

shaujaat said: 

aaaaaa There is no problem with your material….. It happened to me as well with the same material I uses, what I think what happened was I didnt gave time to each liquid to dissolve completely and poured whole of it at once. It is better for your to divide the water that you are going to use in the process in to two and dilute the sulfuic in the water and then pour slowly the NAOH to neutralize it. don’t mix it with other materials until it cools down, that’s my experience 

Perhaps this is one of the most valuable comments of this thread . I faced same problem at first and then over come it by following the Rule , 
‘ Never put your second ingredients until your first one is completely dissolved ‘ . 
Dissolve NaOH in adequate of water , then pour LABSA slowly with stirring over a 15 to 20 minutes of time and continue stirring until completely dissolve and get a transparent solution . 
Hope you will overcome this problem . 

[Aziz]

Urea is cleaning agent , as well as it increase viscosity . You may do some research by a small quantity of your liquid and urea . You may also compare NaCl and Urea separately for their harshness and irritation . 

[Aziz]

You can add 1% CDEA ! It has a very good irritation potential and foaming capacity . Today I made a batch with NaOH and Acid Slurry and added CDEA . It is working fine . I used urea instead of NaCl . NaCl makes it harsh . 

[Aziz]

Hi ,
I am Aziz , my educational background is , Graduation in Chemistry and Masters in Organic Chemistry . I did job in Sanofi BD Ltd for several years in Sales and Marketing . I was away from my subject related job for several years . 
Now I have formulate a hand wash and a liquid dish wash and going to launch in the market . I have a desire to add more items in course of time .