[tianaloveorganics]

Graillotion said:

tianaloveorganics said:

Perry said:

If you are making a “hair oil” which is meant to soften hair and make it more manageable or feel nicer, then 5% oil would certainly have an impact.

If you’re making a “hair growth oil” then neither 5% or 100% of any oil ingredient is going to work. Oils are not proven to make hair grow.

thank you so much for that I know minoxidil is the only proven thing is that it?? and so where can I purchase minoxidil to use in my product

Last time I checked, Minoxidil is a drug, not a cosmetic.

This is a completely different arena.  I think it was only a suggestion of what works….not something you should pursue.

Ok

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

If you are making a “hair oil” which is meant to soften hair and make it more manageable or feel nicer, then 5% oil would certainly have an impact.

If you’re making a “hair growth oil” then neither 5% or 100% of any oil ingredient is going to work. Oils are not proven to make hair grow.

thank you so much for that I know minoxidil is the only proven thing is that it?? and so where can I purchase minoxidil to use in my product

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

Depends on the ingredient. There is no 5% rule that applies to everything.

making a hair oil 

[tianaloveorganics]

abierose said:

I would think this would very much depend on the ingredient you’re using…each and every ingredient has its own suggested and maximum usage rates…and I agree with @Graillotion…there are a lot of ingredients that can cause serious injury and/or damage if used at 5%…some even at .5% or less! At the very least, most ingredients would not give any more perceivable benefit when used at more than 1-2%. But again, each ingredient is different.

I’m making a hair oil

[tianaloveorganics]

Graillotion said:

Not sure what you’re making….but other than water…most formulas never hit the 5% range (other than an oil or the likes)… Some ingredients will seriously damage you at 5%.

I’m making a “hair growth oil” and what do u mean by “Some ingredients will seriously damage you at 5%.”

[tianaloveorganics]

@Perry

[tianaloveorganics]

Paprik said:

I think the only proven ingredient for hair grow is Minoxidil. 

In my opinion, no oil can help with grow.
I even read an articles talking about silicones in hair care products and it said, that silicone prevents water loss too well, that in the end the hair follicle swells and dies. 

hey yes I know Minoxidil is the only proven thing but I don’t know where I can purchase it

@Perry do you know where I can get it 

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

With Polyquaternium 10, this would be more of a “moisturizing” shampoo. Of course the inclusion of Almond Oil and Glycerin means that it will not foam or clean as well as formulas that don’t have those ingredients.  And I wouldn’t expect it to be very thick nor would I expect it to produce much foam.

Hey Perry this is where I got the formulation from https://youtu.be/vb3jnn0IS00   I would love for you to watch the vid and tell me if I should try to make it and here’s came out thick when it was finish 

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

The answer depends a bit on how much of the ingredients are in there but I’ll venture to guess.

1.  Too sticky - The following things make it sticky if you use too much. Aloe, Marshmallow root, flaxseed.

2.  Separating - you are trying to mix oils and water without a suitable emulsification system.

In truth, this formula has way too many ingredients. When you make a formula you should start with as few ingredients as you can to make a viable product. Why, for example, are you adding both sunflower oil and soybean oil? They have overlapping fatty acid compositions. That means if you used only one of them there would be no difference in your product. From a functional standpoint, those oils are all pretty much the same. Start with one or two that are the most different.  

Keep it simple.  Simple means as few ingredients as you can use to get the performance you want.

hey Perry I just wanted to updated u so I kept the btms-50 (5%) and added betherinoum chloride at (2.5%) do you think that will stop the separating?

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

1.  Add up all the gram amounts to get a total # of grams. Call it T
2.  To get percentage, take the gram amount of an ingredient and divide it by the Total grams. (then multiply by 100)

So, if you have a formula that is 200g total.
And one of the component materials is 10g.
The percentage of that ingredient in the formula is = 10g/200g = 0.05 x 100 = 5%

thank you so much you are the best I really really appreciate it 

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

The answer depends a bit on how much of the ingredients are in there but I’ll venture to guess.

1.  Too sticky - The following things make it sticky if you use too much. Aloe, Marshmallow root, flaxseed.

2.  Separating - you are trying to mix oils and water without a suitable emulsification system.

In truth, this formula has way too many ingredients. When you make a formula you should start with as few ingredients as you can to make a viable product. Why, for example, are you adding both sunflower oil and soybean oil? They have overlapping fatty acid compositions. That means if you used only one of them there would be no difference in your product. From a functional standpoint, those oils are all pretty much the same. Start with one or two that are the most different.  

Keep it simple.  Simple means as few ingredients as you can use to get the performance you want.

Thank you so much I really appreciate it wow I never knew aloe made a product sticky and I’m using it the marshmallow root, and flaxseed at very high percentages

When you say “ you are trying to mix oils and water without a suitable emulsification system.” can you please elaborate I’m not really sure what ur saying 

before this formula had about about 30 ingredients and I cut it down to 15 so I will definitely cut it down more because I will be saving more money and ur right the product will still work the same 

[tianaloveorganics]

Abdullah said:

Cationic surfactants are usually used between %1 and %2. No one uses %10 at anything

THANK YOU SO SO MUCH because someone told me they used it at 6% so i should use it at the same but I was like I have to come ask the experts over at chemist corner 

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

I wouldn’t use BTMS-50 in a leave-in conditioner. That would be too heavy on the hair in my opinion. But certainly not more than 1%.  Probably less.

oh wow and the only reason why I purchased it because a lot of people in my industry have that in theirs what do you recommend instead? and I know its a emulsifier to make the water and oil mix so that’s another reason I purchased  

[tianaloveorganics]

@Perry

[tianaloveorganics]

thank you so much I really appreciate it 

natzam44 said:

This is not something which we can answer. When making a knockoff you have to simply take a guess and then make a sample. Rinse and repeat. One thing you can do, is to heat up a sample to ~80C and get all of the water to evaporate. You can then use the change in weight to get a rough estimate of the water content, which will give you a starting point. 

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

If you want to figure out the amount of water you could do the following.

1.  Weight a 100 g sample
2.  Put the sample in an oven at about 50C
3.  Monitor the mass until it stops getting lower.
4.  The difference in mass between 100 and where it stops losing weight is the amount of moisture (water) in the product. 

You’ll have to guess at the rest.

thank you so much Perry I’m going to try this

[tianaloveorganics]

Microformulation said:

You will need to do your research, but that is a “formula” that made it’s way around some of the DIY blogs a few years ago. It is pretty widely copied.

oh wow it didn’t know you would recognize it but yes its a good product 

[tianaloveorganics]

Abdullah said:

What is this product? Cream or hair conditioner?

hair conditoner

[tianaloveorganics]

1Armand2 said:

What is BTMS?
Thanks

BTMS-50, or Behentrimonium Methosulfate is a vegetable based conditioning emulsifier. It can be used to emulsify cosmetic formula’s (meaning it helps water and oil mix) 

[tianaloveorganics]

Abdullah said:

ozgirl said:

I haven’t tried cetyl esters so I can’t really comment on that.

Polyquaternium 10 might add some additional benefits that BTMS doesn’t but you should just try it with and without Polyquaternium-10 and see if there is a perceivable difference.

May I ask what additional benefits pg10 has over BTMS?

Polyquaternium-10 is a high-performing multitasker used to fight frizz, improve hair manageability, and provide defined and bouncy curls. 
and u cant pass 2% for the usage rate so I don’t know if there’s going to be a difference 

[tianaloveorganics]

ozgirl said:

I haven’t tried cetyl esters so I can’t really comment on that.

Polyquaternium 10 might add some additional benefits that BTMS doesn’t but you should just try it with and without Polyquaternium-10 and see if there is a perceivable difference.

thank you so much I took ur advice and this is what I have now 

water 
btms-50
optiphen plus
fragrance
polyquaternium-10 
cetyl esters
marshmallow root extract
flaxseed extract
slippery elm extract 
glycerin 
silk amino acids 
baobab oil 
kukui nut oil 
meadowfoam seed oil 
sunflower oil 
soybean oil
if i should make some changes to this too let me know I’m open to ur advice and I’m going to listen

and also as you said I’m going to try one with cetyl alcohol, cetaryl alcohol and so on…..

thank you and so sorry to ask all these questions but i just need some help!!

[tianaloveorganics]

ozgirl said:

The only things that are necessary are

Water

BTMS-50

optiphen plus

Reduce your oils to 1 or 2 you definitely do not need different 9 oils.

Aloe and honey are bug food so leave these out.

Add your extracts individually and see if there is any perceivable difference (if not leave them out).

You probably don’t need cetyl alcohol and cetearyl alcohol. Try each one to see which gives you the feel/viscosity you need.

Adding so many ingredients like this is just throwing money away.

Thank you so so so much because this was really helpful i was stressing myself out cause my mind is saying more is better and truth is that’s not always the case and yes ur right because i barley have money to buy these ingredients much less to waste!!! what do you think about the polyquaternium-10 and cetyl esters??

[tianaloveorganics]

Graillotion said:

OMG….. There is HUGE differences between re-packers.  Buy the smallest amount first…and compare to what you are using.  My trash can is FULL of cheaper products.  Many products from reputable re-sellers are so sub par they cannot be used in discerning products.

I buy every ingredient from each of my 5 suppliers…compare on skin neat, and then buy the best, no matter the price.

I will tell you this, Here are my top 5 repackers….and I will also tell you whom has the best oil most often…and the best butters ALL of the time.

New Directions …. Typically wins the oil quality test
Make Your Own…. Best butters… refined in Denmark..runner up on oils.
Formulators Sample Shop
Lotion Crafters
Noble Roots…. is phasing out small sales…but had amazing quality.  Example…their Mac Nut Oil is Floratech…simply the best. 

Stuff from Amazon or e-bay….don’t bother even trying….straight to the trash.  (Not just low quality….usually fake.)

thank you so much for this yes lol I will never purchase ingredients from amazon the supplier what I’m using is 
lotion crafter 
bulk apothecary 
formulator sample shop 
wholesale supplier plus 
essential wholesale 
and ingredients to die for 

and i will looking on all there website to see who has the cheapest price for example i bought most of my thing from lotion crafter but i notice ingredients to die for have cheaper so i was going to switch when the ingredients are done 

[tianaloveorganics]

Microformulation said:

Keep in mind that since your materials aren’t standardized (an extensive process), you would unlikely get this Formulation into many sales outlets. Buyers can and will request documentation for each and every Raw material. We do a great deal of work with NSF and Credo Beauty. They for example will request these documents.

hi when you say ” your materials aren’t standardized (an extensive process)” what do you mean by that? and when you say this “you would unlikely get this Formulation into many sales outlets” do you mean I wouldn’t get my products in stores? because I wasn’t planning the list the herbs that ill be using on my labels  (business its infused in my water and I will then strain it )
so would you recommend not using the herbs?

[tianaloveorganics]

Perry said:

Yes, boil, strain it, let it cool, then add it to the water phase like it is another extract.  You don’t need to put the aloe and stuff in the marshmallow root mix. You should put everything into your water phase.  And then you can heat it up. Hope that makes sense.

(Text probably isn’t the best way to communicate this.)

Optiphen plus might work. But you’re using natural ingredients which may be highly contaminated with natural bacteria/molds/fungi so it might not work. I personally prefer more robust preservatives which would include parabens & formaldehyde donors but I think safety is the most important thing when it comes to preservation. In my opinion avoiding those types of preservatives is more risky.

thank you so much and yes I really hate texting I like talking on the phone it makes me understand quicker lol… so what type of preservative should i use?