[Squinny]

You should be able to get some information from your supplier (or did you make it yourself?) The notes from my supplier for a Pineapple Gycerine based extract advises: Use:  1-5% in your formula. Add at the end of manufacturing once the temperature has reduced to 50C or less to ensure the full action of the extract remains.  Pineapple extract is sensitive to heat and extremes of pH so while it can be a great addition to an AHA based formula it would be best to keep the final pH to between 4.5-5 rather than more acidic.

Solubility:  Water soluble extract.

Water soluble. Add to water based products after cooling.  Not soluble in oil but can be used in an emulsion.

Whenever I add herbal type extract I use up to 5% of total - depending if I have any other ingredients for cooldown besides a preservative etc. So I say try a small batch (100 g max and see how it goes as it will depend on what else in in your cream!). Ensure you have good preserving system - you may want to check with the real chemists here for that and if so you may need to advise what else is in your formula and what the cream is to be used for (moistursing, exfolliating, cleansing etc). Cheers

[Squinny]

Maybe the Xanthan Gum and Aloe dont like each other. Maybe try making without Aloe powder and see how you go - just do a small batch so you dont waste ingredients.

[Squinny]

Hi Can I ask what is the purpose or function of the Blue Tansy EO in your cream? Could you use another EO like Chamomile or even Bisabolol if it is soothing properties you are after (or are these too expensive for your purpose compared to BT?). Not sure why the cream would need to be blue especially if intended for facial use. 

[Squinny]

There is a paper called “Rate Studies on the Hydrolysis of Niacinamide” and they used hydrochloric acid to perform the experiment in the acid region.  The study found that a 10% Niacinamide solution heated to around 89 degrees C and then taken to a pH of below 4.5 with a STRONG acid did start to hydrolyse and form Niacin and that this conversion was a first order reaction which it says basically means it went from Niacinamide to Niacin without turning into anything else first.  The study found that between pH 4.5-6 very little of this shifting occurred and in fact at pH 4.5 – 6 the half-life of the solution was found to be 1000 days which probably means that the average cosmetic formulator has little to worry about. So would be good if this is true.
I have formulated with Niacinamide at around pH 5 with no issues and also now add in my cool-down stage when doing emulsions as other info I have found out from a Cosmetic Chemist here in Australia said it should be added at temps below 70 degrees C. It would be good to hear what other real Chemist have to say 
Just type Niacinamide in the Search area and see what other discussions there are on this forum. Cheers

Also this link
Using Niacinamide in an acidic formulation | Realize Beauty (wordpress.com)

[Squinny]

This website used the phrase “Inspired By xxx” - I think it sounds better than “Type” - Just a suggestion. Maybe check these links out for ideas? Might alos help with the ‘Fluffy wording” - Cheers
Perfume Dupes That Smell Like Top Designer Fragrances | DB Cosmetics
Amore for Women (EDP) 100ml Fragrance | DB Cosmetics

[Squinny]

Personally as a consumer (and home formulator) I dont know one person besides me who understands what the the INCI name is or the Latin name or whatever and the ingredients labels writing is so small I doubt anyone but a formulator would bother reading them. It’s great to know as a formulator what ingredients are in products so you can try ‘dupe’ them though. I cant imagine how painful it would when you change your formula or add/remove an ingredient and have to redo all your labels - it must be a pain for Small Business - I think Most consumers understand and would prefer the “Common” names on their products so at least they would understand what is in their products like Jojoba Oil, Avocado Oil, Shea Butter etc and would take up far less room on a label and you might actually be able to read it without getting out the magnifying glass - Just my opinion as a consumer as I said and I know it wont happen or be legal under current laws. If I make products for friends I give them a brochure with the list of ingredients that they can understand - But I dont sell products as a business. Waiting for everyone to ‘bag’ me now ha ha (BTW ‘Bag me’ is Aussie slang Look it up )- Enjoy your weekend folks.

[Squinny]

Thanks so much Perry for your very much for sharing all you do about hair, hair products etc. I wish I had known all this before I wasted money over the years trying to make my hair thicker - ha

[Squinny]

Thanks G - Yes I basically asked 2 questions (cheeky I know
 I am currently Vit E Nat + 50% Tocopherols from New Directions Aust and RAnti as well So I have been adding these to my cool down phase once I emulsify - I assume that this is wrong by your comments and I should be adding to the Oil Phase - I thought that the 50% Mixed Tocopherols (New Directions one) was intolerant to heat above 70 degrees? If I add to my Oil phase I know I would need to use more so what % would you recommend (along with Rosemary Antioxidant) or dont I need both? 50% Mixed T is much cheaper and too much RAnti gives me too much colour in the cream.

And good to know I should be adding both to my oils once I open (and yes I keep in my special fridges for my raw ingredients out of light too). 
Cheers and thanks again.

[Squinny]

Can one you (maybe Mark?) advise what is a good antioxidant to use in an emulsion (say face cream) rather than including Tocopherol and at what % - or isnt there any point putting one in? What about Rosemary Antioxidant as well?
Or should you put an antioxidant into a bottle of Oil such as Grapeseed, Sunflower etc once you open the bottle? Or doesnt this make a difference either. Thanks for your help on probably stupid questions but would like to know for future concoctions I make for myself. I also keep most my oils in wine fridge at about 6 to 10 degrees (as standard room temp where I live is around 25 degrees Celcius year round and humidity between 45 and 65. Cheers and thanks again

[Squinny]

I’d be concerned to make sure it isnt going to cause yeast infections ( I assume it is for the down under area?) 

[Squinny]

Good plan thanks Mark.

[Squinny]

I do keep them in the fridge and only adjust pH at end of making an emulsion (around the pH 5 range). I havent had any issues with any of my products but I usually use with a month as only make small quantity each time.

[Squinny]

Hi the one I use from my one my suppliers in Australia for Rose Hydrolsol - Ingredients: Distillate Water from the Steam Distillation of Rosa Damascena, Preservative (Sodium Benzoate, Gluconolactone - added at less than 1% to stabilize the water)
Plant Part Used: Flowers
Country of Origin: Australia
So when I open I just store in my wine fridge (at 10 degrees) - Should I be adding preservatives to this once I open as I dont at the moment and I usually use within a few months ?

The other one I use from another supplier is totally different
The ingredients: Aqua (Water), PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Glycerin, Potassium Sorbate, Lactic Acid, Rosa Damascena Flower Oil (Rose Oil), Dimethicone, Sorbitan Stearate, PEG-40 Stearate, Cellullose Gum, Silica, Sodium Benzoate, Sorbic Acid.

What is the better one of the 2 I use? The 1st one is $4 cheaper per Litre.
I Only buy 1L at a time as I only make products for myself and family. 
Cheers 

[Squinny]

MarkBroussard said:

@Squinny

If you want to make a water-based serum, you can use Sodium Ascorbyl Phosphate … it is most stable around pH = 6.0.  There are some other forms of “stabilized” Vitamin C derivatives, but I find SAP to be the easiest to work with.

If you want to make an oil-based serum, you can use Tetrahexadecyl Ascorbate.

Thanks very much for that info Mark - will store away for when I may make some for myself in the future. Very helpful as always. You are a legend

[Squinny]

MarkBroussard said:

@Adamnfineman

The main claim to the patent is that the combination of Vitamin E + Ferulic Acid yields an 8X increase in preventing oxidation of the L-Ascorbic Acid

Hi Mark I have never worked with Vitamin C (due to everything I have read about stability etc and am only interested in making a product for myself not commercially). What is the INCI of the Ascorbic Acid I should be sourcing that is stable? Also what pH would be aiming for? Sorry if these are stupid questions. Cheers

[Squinny]

Instead of just Xanthan Gum why not buy a blend (INCI: Acacia Senegal Gum (and) Xanthan Gum) - it is more expensive but will last a long time if you are only using as a home formulator. Also depends on what viscosity you want for your formulation. Maybe do some research with something like thsi:
A REVIEW ON NATURAL GUMS AND THEIR USE AS PHARMACEUTICAL EXCIPIENTS | INTERNATIONAL JOURNAL OF PHARMACEUTICAL SCIENCES AND RESEARCH (ijpsr.com) ??

[Squinny]

Hi there just a comment on adding the Colloidal Oatmeal - I just weigh out and add this in the oil phase ingredients (it doesnt dissolve but it doesnt turn gloopy or clump like it can if you add to water phase). It might not be right technically but it works for me and is easily incorporated when you emulsify the phases. I also add EDTA to the Water phase (much cheaper for me that Sodium Phytate if cost is an issue).

[Squinny]

Have a play with your formula in a few small batches and see what works best for you. I havent personally put both IPM and Cyclomethicone in same formula’s before. I guess it depends on what else is in your Oil phase of your formula. I would have a look at ingredients in some store bought products you like and see if you can dupe those. Note from my supplier (New Directions) notes  Cyclomethicone is stated as being miscible with Mineral oil, isododecane, polydecane, almond oil, Jojoba oil, Soybean oil, Sunflower oil, Isopropyl Myristate, C12-15 Alcohol Benzoate and Capric/ Caprylic Triglyceride. 

[Squinny]

Wow I had a look at a list of suppliers for you in USA and I cant find either. Maybe one of the Chemists in USA can advise. Sorry I cant be of help.

[Squinny]

Hi MikeyL - I use Cyclomethicone in a body lotion I make for myself at 2% and I add in the cool down stage. It is meant to reduce any tackiness and give more slip to your formula. I have also used it in an emulsified Body Butter formula and it leaves a nice feel on your skin that isnt greasy (unlike a lot of body butter formula’s I have tried) so that may be due to the addition of the Cyclomethione (again I used 2%). It is added in Cool down. It would also depend on what other ingredients (Oils, Emulsifiers, Thickeners, Emoillients, Humectants etc that are in your formula. If you want more info on what I do feel free to leave me a message in my inbox. Cheers 

[Squinny]

Guess it will depend on what county you live in and where you usually buy your ingredients. In Australia it can be bought at New Directions.

[Squinny]

Totally agree

[Squinny]

Graillotion said:

Squinny said:

Just been looking into for fun and found out it is also has a trade name Leucidal® Liquid SF and states it is the newest of the natural, plant-based preservatives from Active Micro Technologies. Active Micro Technologies combines the current trends for alternative preservative systems with peptide technology. enzyme and it can help to protect the skin against environmental aggressors.

Not sure you’ll find many takers on this site….that it qualifies as a preservative.  
 Yes agree - Just saying what it is and apparently meant to do. ::smile:

[Squinny]

Just been looking into for fun and found out it is also has a trade name Leucidal® Liquid SF and states it is the newest of the natural, plant-based preservatives from Active Micro Technologies. Active Micro Technologies combines the current trends for alternative preservative systems with peptide technology.

Leucidal® Liquid SF is a probiotic-based ingredient created by the fermentation of Lactobacillus in a defined growth medium. Lactobacillus is one of the species of microorganisms used to produce fermented products such as sau¬erkraut and kimchi, a Korean dietary staple, from cabbage. Like many members of the lactic acid bacteria family, Lactobacillus is capable of restricting the growth of other microorganisms by acidifying its environment. However, in addition to acidifying its environment, Lactobacillus also produces novel antimicrobial peptides, also known as bacteriocins, that are capable of providing broad spectrum antimicrobial protection.

Maybe the emulsifier/s are at less than % (or so they claim and same with any thickeners) and if so do they need to list them? (dont know).

Apparently according to a 2009 Estee Lauder patent, it’s a DNA repair enzyme and it can help to protect the skin against environmental aggressors.

Second, still according to Estee Lauder research but now from 2012 the ingredient has anti-microbial and anti-inflammatory properties and holds promise in the treatment of acne and rosacea. For the former one 5% was needed to show effectiveness, but for reducing skin sensitivity already 1% showed results. 

Also their eye cream doesnt have an emulsifier in LOI either.

PS they really know how to charge - $150 (USD I assume) for 15 ml of eye cream - crazy!

[Squinny]

Great thanks so much Mark very helpful. Cheers