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Cyclomethicone Vs isopropyl myristate for lotion
Type your messageI’m looking for a fast absorbing emollient for my lotion but I’m not sure if cyclomethicone will be a good choice. I don’t see cyclomethicone commonly used in skincare so I’m wondering if there’s a reason for it. I could use isopropyl myristate as an alternative but sourcing cyclomethicone is much easier for me.
My concerns:
- I know that cyclomethicone is generally used more in haircare products and not skincare.
- I think it evaporates at room temperature so the the play time is really short? [ If cyclomethicone evaporates at room temperature, how does it stay liquid in a bottle without evaporating?]
- I’ve also heard it leaves a powder residueBonus question:
Typically in skincare is dimethicone cs 350 used or cs1000 used? I can’t find dimethicone in the UK so are there any similar hydrocarbon/ Ester alternatives that are long lastingThank you for reading my post
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16 Replies
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And how wouldnt cyclomethicone evaporate during the heat and hold phase?
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mikeylamar said:And how wouldnt cyclomethicone evaporate during the heat and hold phase?It would…and why it is added at cooldown.
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It would be in the oil phase….if it were added to a phase, and would never be in a heat and hold situation. -
I think cyclomethicone is being used in skincare, I saw it in some men’s skincare formulas.
Cyclomethicone evaporates slowlier than water. So you do not need to worry about play time. It will stay on the skin for some time. But it won’t make it greasy (that is why it is used in hair care, as it won’t weight the hair down and most of it will evaporate during styling and leaving only other ingredients/actives behind).
Sorry, not sure about the powder residue, but I think it’s a lie. It will completely evaporate. Leave a little bit of it on watch glass and a day after it will completely disappear.
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Hi MikeyL - I use Cyclomethicone in a body lotion I make for myself at 2% and I add in the cool down stage. It is meant to reduce any tackiness and give more slip to your formula. I have also used it in an emulsified Body Butter formula and it leaves a nice feel on your skin that isnt greasy (unlike a lot of body butter formula’s I have tried) so that may be due to the addition of the Cyclomethione (again I used 2%). It is added in Cool down. It would also depend on what other ingredients (Oils, Emulsifiers, Thickeners, Emoillients, Humectants etc that are in your formula. If you want more info on what I do feel free to leave me a message in my inbox. Cheers
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mikeylamar said:And how wouldnt cyclomethicone evaporate during the heat and hold phase?
You can smell it. The Cyclomethicone has a certain smell, which is pleasant for me. Usually I add it at 45-50 degrees, but I double the amount because of evaporation. Also I am homogenizing it in the emulsion for a few seconds.
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ggpetrov said:mikeylamar said:And how wouldnt cyclomethicone evaporate during the heat and hold phase?
You can smell it. The Cyclomethicone has a certain smell, which is pleasant for me. Usually I add it at 45-50 degrees, but I double the amount because of evaporation. Also I am homogenizing it in the emulsion for a few seconds.
How can a chemist be sure of how much cyclomethicone is left in the lotion even if adding extra to compensate for evaporation?
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Can anyone comment on the difference in feel when compared to isopropyl myristate.Squinny mentions that she includes 2% cyclomethicone in her formulas. How much IPM and cyclomethicone is usually added in a formula. I’m thinking about adding 5-10% but I’m not sure if that’s too much.
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mikeylamar said:ggpetrov said:mikeylamar said:And how wouldnt cyclomethicone evaporate during the heat and hold phase?
You can smell it. The Cyclomethicone has a certain smell, which is pleasant for me. Usually I add it at 45-50 degrees, but I double the amount because of evaporation. Also I am homogenizing it in the emulsion for a few seconds.
How can a chemist be sure of how much cyclomethicone is left in the lotion even if adding extra to compensate for evaporation?
I’ve been discussing this with ngarayeva001, and she told me that in the industry they add the Cyclomethicone under vacuum so the evaporation isn’t a factor. At home, we can’t use such a vessels, so we can add it at the cool down phase and we can add extra amount of it. I don’t think there will be a difference, because the Cyclomethicone is very light and ethereal. About the IPM, I think they are incomparable at all. The IPM isn’t volatile so it can be used as a traditional emolient.
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Have a play with your formula in a few small batches and see what works best for you. I havent personally put both IPM and Cyclomethicone in same formula’s before. I guess it depends on what else is in your Oil phase of your formula. I would have a look at ingredients in some store bought products you like and see if you can dupe those. Note from my supplier (New Directions) notes Cyclomethicone is stated as being miscible with Mineral oil, isododecane, polydecane, almond oil, Jojoba oil, Soybean oil, Sunflower oil, Isopropyl Myristate, C12-15 Alcohol Benzoate and Capric/ Caprylic Triglyceride.
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mikeylamar said:Can anyone comment on the difference in feel when compared to isopropyl myristate.Squinny mentions that she includes 2% cyclomethicone in her formulas. How much IPM and cyclomethicone is usually added in a formula. I’m thinking about adding 5-10% but I’m not sure if that’s too much.
I use both D5 and IPM together in many formulas. IPM…I pretty much use a standard procedure of 2%. (But I use a ton of Isoamyl laurate.)
D5…now that is a whole nother beast. Also, I do not consider them really even similar, or doing the same thing. D5 is too unique to lump it in with non-volatile emollients. You have to experiment…but 2-10% ranges are not uncommon. Typically where I want just a subtle bump of haptics…2-3% will suffice. Something that you want rapid drying (sensory)…(for me this was an emulsified deo cream)…the 7-10% range was more appropriate. BTW…. D5 should also help with soaping.
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Graillotion said:mikeylamar said:Can anyone comment on the difference in feel when compared to isopropyl myristate.Squinny mentions that she includes 2% cyclomethicone in her formulas. How much IPM and cyclomethicone is usually added in a formula. I’m thinking about adding 5-10% but I’m not sure if that’s too much.
I use both D5 and IPM together in many formulas. IPM…I pretty much use a standard procedure of 2%. (But I use a ton of Isoamyl laurate.)
D5…now that is a whole nother beast. Also, I do not consider them really even similar, or doing the same thing. D5 is too unique to lump it in with non-volatile emollients. You have to experiment…but 2-10% ranges are not uncommon. Typically where I want just a subtle bump of haptics…2-3% will suffice. Something that you want rapid drying (sensory)…(for me this was an emulsified deo cream)…the 7-10% range was more appropriate. BTW…. D5 should also help with soaping.
How do you describe the difference in haptics between the two?I’m only using one ester so 7-10% sounds reasonable to me. 10% cyclomethicone/ isopropyl myristate, 6% carrier oil, 4% cetyl alcohol and Glyceryl stearate & Peg 100 5%.As ggpetrov mentioned above, are you making lotions in a vacuum or do you add extra to compensate for evaporation? -
the boiling point of D5 is 210 °C, and at room temperature, its vapour pressure is about 1/5000th of atmospheric, considerably less than that of waterits apparent volatility is due to its very low viscosity, and low chemical affinity for water and most oilsas long as you keep your batch covered while it’s cooling (which is good practise in any case) you should have little if any material lossalso, adding it under vacuum would reduce its boiling point, making any losses worse, which would make precisely zero sense -
Bill_Toge said:the boiling point of D5 is 210 °C, and at room temperature, its vapour pressure is about 1/5000th of atmospheric, considerably less than that of water
I am curious…. what is the number for water. Always wanted to make that comparison in my head.
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I suppose with rudimentary ‘Google’ skills…I can answer that question for myself…and possibly for others:
For beginners like myself….
“The vapor pressure of a liquid is the point at which equilibrium pressure is reached, in a closed container, between molecules leaving the liquid and going into the gaseous phase and molecules leaving the gaseous phase and entering the liquid phase. Note the mention of a “closed container”. In an open container the molecules in the gaseous phase will just fly off and an equilibrium would not be reached, as many fewer gaseous molecules would be re-entering the liquid phase. Also note that at equilibrium the movement of molecules between liquid and gas does not stop, but the number of molecules in the gaseous phase stays the same—there is always movement between phases. So, at equilibrium there is a certain concentration of molecules in the gaseous phase; the pressure the gas is exerting is the vapor pressure. As for vapor pressure being higher at higher temperatures, when the temperature of a liquid is raised, the added energy in the liquid gives the molecules more energy and they have greater ability to escape the liquid phase and go into the gaseous phase.”
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Graillotion said:Bill_Toge said:the boiling point of D5 is 210 °C, and at room temperature, its vapour pressure is about 1/5000th of atmospheric, considerably less than that of water
I am curious…. what is the number for water. Always wanted to make that comparison in my head.
it’s about 1/30th of atmospheric pressure at room temperature
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