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  • Natural Preservative for Hydrosols

    Posted by Anca_Formulator on June 25, 2022 at 12:40 am

    Hi, I was wondering what natural preservatives you find to be effective to preserve hydrosols once you open the bottle? This is a Geranium Hydrosol  with a pH of 4.26.

    I used Germall in the past, but would like to give a natural preservative system a go. 

    I know most suppliers of preserved hydrosols use Leucidal Liquid, but I’ve read that it is really not very effective. 

    I’ve seen the suggestion of 0.05% citric acid + 0.15% postassium sorbate. Is this enough? 

    I was thinking of using 1% Leucidal PE9010 + 1% Geogard Ultra + 3% natural Pentylene Glycol. Is this overkill?

    Thank you. 

    PhilGeis replied 1 year, 11 months ago 5 Members · 16 Replies
  • 16 Replies
  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 12:58 am

    @Anca_Formulator

    1% Geogard Ultra + 0.5% Phenethyl Alcohol + 3% Pentylene Glycol will do the trick for you

  • Anca_Formulator

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 1:24 am

    @MarkBroussard: Many thanks. 

  • Graillotion

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 7:37 am

    Hi, I was wondering what natural preservatives you find to be effective to preserve hydrosols once you open the bottle? This is a Geranium Hydrosol  with a pH of 4.26.

    I used Germall in the past, but would like to give a natural preservative system a go. 

    I know most suppliers of preserved hydrosols use Leucidal Liquid, but I’ve read that it is really not very effective. 

    I’ve seen the suggestion of 0.05% citric acid + 0.15% postassium sorbate. Is this enough? 

    I was thinking of using 1% Leucidal PE9010 + 1% Geogard Ultra + 3% natural Pentylene Glycol. Is this overkill?

    Thank you. 

    No point in adding leucidal…as that doesn’t do much…and brings some nasty adulterations to your product.  (They fail to list some of the goodies that put in that garbage.)

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 1:45 pm

    A bit of overkill - 9010 and Ultra should be enough tho’ suggest addition of EDTA.  Not aware Ecocert has contrived “natural” for 9010’s phenoxy (yet), and your pentylene glycol is unlikely to be anything but synthetic.

    As Graillotion said, dump the Leucidal.

  • Anca_Formulator

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 2:42 pm

    oooops, Typo!! I meant to type 1% Euxyl PE9010 not 1% Leucidal PE9010!

    I am having trouble finding Phenethyl Alcohol. @Graillotion I saw one of your older posts re. the other synonyms it may hide under, but still didn’t find it (I haven’t tried all of them yet though). I’m in the US, where did you have luck finding it at times?

    @PhilGeis: Thank you. Yes, EDTA is a good idea to prevent the pH drift. I found that Euxyl 9010 dissolves better in water if I first add it to a glycol. But maybe it would be ok without?

  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 2:50 pm

    @Anca_Formulator

    You are aware that PE9010 is not natural?  Yes, firs pre-dissolving PE9010 in a glycol helps to better dissolve it in water.  Same with Phenethyl Alcohol.

  • Graillotion

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 5:39 pm

    I am having trouble finding Phenethyl Alcohol. @Graillotion I saw one of your older posts re. the other synonyms it may hide under, but still didn’t find it (I haven’t tried all of them yet though). I’m in the US, where did you have luck finding it at times?

    It is available even on Amazon:  Amazon.com: Phenethyl Alcohol 120ml (4oz) High Purity Fragrance/Aroma Compound : Home & Kitchen

    But I have mostly gotten it here:  Perfumers Apprentice - Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol

    or if you want to order some exotic…hard to find ingredients…and are ordering from the Thai place: Phenethyl Alcohol, Phenyl Ethyl Alcohol (myskinrecipes.com)

    As it is a huge part of fragrance making…any perfume supplier should carry it.  Funny though…sometimes hard to find on their sites….cus of so many spelling variations…and if you don’t guess theirs just right….you may think they don’t have it.

    How is this for a synonym list  (This might not be accurate…not my list…and I did not double check it. :) )??? : ชื่ออื่นๆ: (2-hydroxyethyl)benzene, 1-phenyl-2-ethanol, 2-hydroxyethyl benzene, 2-hydroxyethylbenzene, 2-phenethyl alcohol, 2-phenyl ethan-1-ol, 2-phenyl ethanol, 2-phenyl ethyl alcohol, 2-phenylethanol, b-hydroxyethylbenzene, b-phenethanol, b-phenylethanol, b-phenylethyl alcohol, benzene ethanol, benzeneethanol, benzyl carbinol, benzyl methanol, beta-p.e.a., beta-phenyl ethanol, beta-phenyl ethyl alcohol, mellol, nat.phenyl ethyl alcohol, phenethyl alcohol nat., phenethyl alcohol natural, phenethyl alcohol turkey, natural isolated constituent, phenethylalcohol, phenethylol, phenyl ethanol, phenyl ethyl alcohol, phenyl ethyl alcohol extra, phenyl ethyl alcohol FCC, phenyl ethyl alcohol natural, phenyl ethyl alcohol USP 24, phenylethanol, phenylethanol nat, phenylethyl alcohol, phenylethyl alcohol (2-phenyl-1-ethanol), phenylethyl alcohol FCC, phenylethyl alcohol USP/NF

    NOTE**  The Thai place charges the same freight for 1 gram to 500….so to maximize cost…try to order about 500 grams of different products.

  • Anca_Formulator

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 8:55 pm

    @Graillotion: Say wha^%##**tttt?!

    Thank you for the recommendations.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 10:38 pm

    EDTA was offered as a well-known adjunct to preservative efficacy.

    Phenethyl alcohol is much weaker than phenoxyethanol.  It’s more of an inhibitor than killer and has little efficacy vs staph.  What % do you plan to use?  https://www.neogen.com/categories/microbiology/phenylethanol-agar/

  • Graillotion

    Member
    June 25, 2022 at 10:55 pm

    I view phenethyl alcohol…as a ‘go to’ head space preservative.  Meaning…I create a respectable preservation hurdle program, and if I have a product that needs head space preservation…the phenethyl gets added to the existing program.

     @Anca_Formulator   The easiest way I find it….is when I am on a site where I hope they sell it….just type ‘alcohol’ into the search bar….and granted you’ll get a number of products you’ll have to sort through…but at least you find where they hid the phenethyl…hehehe.

  • Squinny

    Member
    June 26, 2022 at 12:28 am

    Hi the one I use from my one my suppliers in Australia for Rose Hydrolsol - Ingredients: Distillate Water from the Steam Distillation of Rosa Damascena, Preservative (Sodium Benzoate, Gluconolactone - added at less than 1% to stabilize the water)
    Plant Part Used: Flowers
    Country of Origin: Australia
    So when I open I just store in my wine fridge (at 10 degrees) - Should I be adding preservatives to this once I open as I dont at the moment and I usually use within a few months ?

    The other one I use from another supplier is totally different
    The ingredients: Aqua (Water), PEG-40 Hydrogenated Castor Oil, Glycerin, Potassium Sorbate, Lactic Acid, Rosa Damascena Flower Oil (Rose Oil), Dimethicone, Sorbitan Stearate, PEG-40 Stearate, Cellullose Gum, Silica, Sodium Benzoate, Sorbic Acid.

    What is the better one of the 2 I use? The 1st one is $4 cheaper per Litre.
    I Only buy 1L at a time as I only make products for myself and family. 
    Cheers 

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 26, 2022 at 3:07 am

    Neither is good - keep ’em in frig.  Do you attempt to control pH?

  • Squinny

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 12:23 am

    I do keep them in the fridge and only adjust pH at end of making an emulsion (around the pH 5 range). I havent had any issues with any of my products but I usually use with a month as only make small quantity each time.

  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 12:51 am

    @squinny:

    If you are making the same products repetitively using these hydrosols, just add some of the preservative ingredients you add to your completed formula to these extracts once you open the container and you will be fine.

  • Squinny

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 1:04 am

    Good plan thanks Mark. :)

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    June 27, 2022 at 9:17 am

    If you guys are healthy you’ll prob be ok.

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