[Rockstargirl]

Cafe33 said:

Biophysics is fairly close to chemistry. You have the science prerequisites and a capacity to learn. Combined with scientific curiosity, trials and errors, drive and work ethic you can definitely call yourself a cosmetic chemist.  

You may be more of a chemist than some of these chemistry graduates I went to school with. I will never forget one guy who graduated in chemistry at McGill Univ. (A more prestigious school that I attended) and after a year or so I think it was like he had never even seen an empirical formula. I think he would have struggled to describe ionic vs convalent bonds.

He settled on a horrible job at Merck calibrating scales all day long. He could not care less about chemistry. And the schooling system is filled with these professional student who are able to get passing grades by force feeding course material and just regurgitating it on a test paper. Once they walk out of the test, they remember nothing. Unfortunately for them, organic chemistry tests don’t work that way. 

Anyway, I digress. 

It’s true. I know this is a very specific kind of chemistry and I’m certainly comfortable here. 

[Rockstargirl]

Graillotion said:

Hey the mommy bloggers call their cult leaders….Cosmetic Chemist….and I am pretty sure some of them don’t have a GED. 

Lol right? They “invent” science as they go 

[Rockstargirl]

ozgirl said:

What about Cosmetic Scientist?

Although I do like Chemical Ninja

Thanks for this. It actually feels more comfortable. I don’t want to take away from actual chemists and if any wants to talk about a chemical beyond their hair care I’m stumped. 

[Rockstargirl]

Perry said:

You have a science degree and have worked as a cosmetic chemist for a few years.  I think you qualify as a cosmetic chemist. Although, if you don’t really have any industry experience (e.g. you’ve learned formulating on your own and haven’t worked for a company) I could see how you might hesitate to say you’re a chemist. 

I’ll say you are much more qualified to call yourself that than many people online who call get a “diploma” from some online program and take to calling themselves a cosmetic chemist.

Ultimately, you can call yourself whatever you like as there is no official requirements (in the US) to be able to call yourself a cosmetic chemist. The question really is can you convince other people that you are what you claim to be?

Thanks Perry. Chemical Ninja it is. 

[Rockstargirl]

MattTheChemist said:

@Rockstargirl the only available data on HPR comes directly from Grant, the manufacturer. I don’t think any independent, peer-reviewed studies exist. 

Fair. Grain of salt then 

[Rockstargirl]

Perry said:

UVA is responsible for most of the things that cause aging skin. e.g. collagen/elastin protein break down, melasma, etc.

While sunscreens do block most of the UV, they do not block all of the UV. So, there is still enough that gets through even if you are using sunscreen to produce all the vitamin D that you need.

Also most people don’t wear it on ears, hands, hair part,  arms or other exposed skin. That vitamin d production from exposer to UV is happening 

[Rockstargirl]

emma1985 said:

It’s extremely expensive. (And not really evidence based.) You would have to charge so much for it (if you’re selling.)

If you haven’t, try searching under the name “Granactive Retinoid.” Sometimes it’s called that. 

Is it because it’s newer? (Not really evidence based) or just not good outcomes?

[Rockstargirl]

Yes good points. I agree it is good for optics (and knowledge!) is each certification equal? Is there a certain institution you would like to see certificates from?

[Rockstargirl]

Pattsi said:

I’m not Canadian yet lol.

https://www.canada.ca/en/health-canada/services/consumer-product-safety/cosmetics/notice-stakeholders-proposed-updates-cosmetic-ingredient-hotlist.html

waiting to be added to restriction list.

Rockstargirl said:

 What are your interpretations of HC hotlist?

azelaic acid - prescription drug, OTC

Potassium azeloyl diglycinate - cosmetics

https://www.healthycanadians.gc.ca/recall-alert-rappel-avis/hc-sc/2019/70893a-eng.php

Thanks. Was hard for me to interpret since I see Canadian brands with AA on it and loudly labeled. I guess the clock is ticking on them. 

[Rockstargirl]

ozgirl said:

If they will accept Benzyl Alcohol you could try Euxyl K903.

ozgirl said:

If they will accept Benzyl Alcohol you could try Euxyl K903.

Thanks - I tried this in my original version (20% water). I still fell safer removing the water.

[Rockstargirl]

RedCoast said:

You may be better off going anhydrous. Water-free beauty products are becoming more popular, particularly with the “natural” market. This could save you from some headaches if your clients’ preferred retailer lists more “unacceptable” preservatives in the near future, or if your clients get more paranoid about ingredients in general.

Just out of curiosity… do they accept dehydroacetic acid? It’s common in many “natural”  products, but not everyone accepts it.

Thanks! it’s exactly what I ended up doing. I still used phenoxyethenol for the whole pot in a shower situation.

[Rockstargirl]

can you try dissolving it in some castor oil first?

[Rockstargirl]

there are some olive based solbilizers. not sure how well they work tho

[Rockstargirl]

PhilGeis said:

Arghhh - “natural” for any of these is such BS, and please know whenever you see “strong, broad spectrum activity…”, it’s the marketing guys at work.

What is the product? pH?  Pretty confident neither “preference” does anything but leavie big hole for some bug’s contamination - even phenoxy alone is not enough.   

yeah thats what im afraid if. its a shower balm. ph 5.5 they freaked out over germall. its actually thier retailers that ban these things and every retail has a different list. ive proposed anyhydrous cleansing grains instead. 
if anything this is a fasinating experience if irrationallity lol

[Rockstargirl]

IP is intelectual property. i made the formula so i own it and let them use it. 

[Rockstargirl]

all interesting! i guess i cant undervalue myself. thank for all the comments. 

[Rockstargirl]

me too! im small beans so im happy to let them go scale up. but i have to charge something. was thinking $3500?

[Rockstargirl]

suspected. but dang. 
thanks Perry!

[Rockstargirl]

love this conversation. smaller are more “evil” and yeah, eveilnis not the word. they di t know. they havent had thier hands slapped. there is not as much to loose. they havent had the experience or they are just look for an edge and ready to take the risk. so many reasons!

[Rockstargirl]

Pattsi said:

Don’t forget to explain about IP to your customer and state it in the contract.

Indeed! Thank you 

[Rockstargirl]

I cool till 80 degrees then add. Stick to your percentage too..it will get lost if you just sniff the beaker but it will be there when your product sets. 

[Rockstargirl]

Thank you! I did a $600 deposit with 3 rounds of samples. Then $1500 for final completion/packaging sourcing/ stability etc. Feel much better about my guess now. Thanks everyone 

[Rockstargirl]

Thanks Perry. That’s the ball park I’m in! Appreciate the help 

[Rockstargirl]

Lol. Yes that’s correct. I will make it for her on going and I can price that out. I will keep IP. But all the work and stability testing etc. I’m not sure to charge hourly or one big lump sum. 

[Rockstargirl]

There are some good face book groups for syndet bars. Try there