[OldPerry]

Any of these ingredients supplied by cosmetic ingredient suppliers and used to make products by large companies are refined and safe to use.

[OldPerry]

@Bill_Toge - great point!

[OldPerry]

I would use less fragrance too. HEC will not give you the same rheology though. It will be much less gel-like. For a gel you could try a Carbomer like Carbomer EDT2020

[OldPerry]

It’s not likely the dimethicone. What else is in your formula?
Did you use all the same raw materials (from the same lot)?

[OldPerry]

I agree with @MarkBroussard - those are not emulsifiers. Also, it would help to know what oils are you trying to emulsify.

[OldPerry]

Yeah, we would need to know all the ingredients. And also, how thick do you want it? HEC is another option.  But we made a conditioner with cetrimonium chloride that only thickened with Cetyl & Stearyl alcohols & Glyceryl Stearate.

[OldPerry]

Well, I guess the dye you’re using doesn’t work on hair. I recommend you find different dyes. 

For example, this product uses 

HC BLUE NO. 2, BASIC BLUE 99, HC YELLOW NO. 4, BASIC BROWN 16

I couldn’t find any product that uses Black 107

[OldPerry]

Those polymers have the ability to suspend particles. So it wouldn’t surprise me if your system remained stable with those polymers.  Essentially, they become polymeric emulsifiers.

[OldPerry]

The polymers like Xanthan Gum and Carbomer keep the particles suspended which might be enough to prevent it from separating. 

[OldPerry]

@Microformulation - @DrCatherinePratt - In production, pounds & gallons are still used. It often caused confusion between metric lab formulas and non-metric production formulas.

[OldPerry]

@ngarayeva001 - 

1. Not exactly. Formulas should be measured in grams. Maybe you’re thinking that they should be first calculated in percentages?  When you’re making a batch, grams is what should be used. Maybe I’m misunderstanding what you’re saying.

[OldPerry]

Sorry, I do not know of a packaging company as you’re describing. You might try some of these…

https://www.happi.com/buyersguide/packaging-equipment/

[OldPerry]

It’s not legal to do that. The rules for labeling cosmetics are published in the INCI Dictionary and governed by the PCPC.  The FDA specifically cites the PCPC as the relevant organization for setting the rules. 

You can find the ingredient dictionary naming rules here.

Relevant to this exact subject…

“3. Solvents and Diluents - Solvents and diluents in raw materials, such as surfactants, polymers, and resins, are not always identified as part of the INCI name (see F. Nomenclature Conventions, Rule 32). However, diluents and/or solvents must be listed on the finished product package label in their proper order of predominance with respect to all other ingredients in the formulation. Information on the concentration of solvents and/or diluents contained in such raw materials must be obtained by the marketing company from the supplier.

4. Extracts - The INCI names for extracts represent the “material extracted” (see F. Nomenclature Conventions, Rule 32). Many extracts are supplied with the extracting solvent and/or other diluents. The solvents and/or diluents in extracts must be listed in their proper order of predominance, along with all other ingredients in the formulation, on the package label. The solvents and/or diluents in a specific extract may be found under its trade name in Section 6, Technical/Trade Names/ INCI Names. Information on the concentration of solvents and/or diluents in a specific extract must be obtained by the marketing company from the supplier. “

[OldPerry]

That depends on what your product is and why you are using the PVP/VA.

But you can try using PVP

[OldPerry]

Your face could be reacting to any number of ingredients in your formula including…

Raspberry Oil

Organic Argan Oil

Niacinamide,
Broussonetia Kazinoki Root Extract,
Morus Alba Bark Extract,
Pyrus Malus (Apple) Fruit Extract,
Camellia Japonica Leaf Extract,
Camellia Sinensis Leaf Extract,
Centella Asiatica Extract,
Tricholoma Matstake Extract

White Willow Bark Extract

Geranium EO

Frankincense EO
Rose EO

Phenoxyethanol & Ethylhexylglycerin

[OldPerry]

It is difficult to give you any advice without knowing all the ingredients in the formula.

[OldPerry]

I wouldn’t count on it. 

Generally, this information is secret and only communicated to serious customers on a need to know basis.

[OldPerry]

You’ll need to provide information about all the ingredients in your formula to get a helpful answer.

[OldPerry]

@Bill_Toge - good point. 

Speaking of MIC, do you know a source listing the MIC of common ingredients?

[OldPerry]

Because they don’t cause cancer.

The ingredient has been evaluated by the FDA.
https://cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient/petrolatum-0

https://cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient/paraffin

[OldPerry]

@kiwigirl71 - the frustration over natural is why a few organizations developed natural standards.  In the EU the biggest natural standard is COSMOS.  In the US, the NSF or NPA.  You can read about them here.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmetic-chemists-guide-to-natural-and-organic-cosmetic-standards/

What you find is that all of these organizations loosen the rules over time to allow for more synthetic things to be considered “natural” because formulators aren’t actually able to make good products under sever restrictions.

2.  Well, not exactly. The ethoxylation happens before being turned into a sulfate. So, lauryl alcohol is ethoxylated then that is reacted to form SLES.  

6.  You can see molecular structure here. http://www.saapedia.org/en/saa/?type=detail&id=7838  And the IUPAC name:  Ethanaminium, 2-hydroxxy-N-methyl-N,N-bis(2-(1-oxooctadecyl)oxyethyl)-, methyl sulfate

[OldPerry]

Good questions.

Naturally derived is no different than natural in terms of a definition. Anything can be considered naturally derived.  

1.  That depends on how you define natural. It’s not supernatural so…it’s natural. It’s not petroleum derived…so natural. It’s as natural as Zinc Oxide. But it’s not generally found in nature so by that measure it isn’t.

2.  SLS is not ethoxylated. Ethoxylation is a reaction with ethylene oxide. Sodium Laureth Sulfate (a different molecule) is ethoxylated. SLS is not.

3.  Google search. Start with this patent. https://patents.google.com/patent/US5616782A/en

4.  See answer 1.

5.  Don’t know. Maybe you have the wrong name. Probably a conditioning ingredient.

6.  Conditioning agent / emulsifier. 

Your comments about SLS and SCS are not quite right. SLS is either made from petroleum or coconut oil. Coconut oil is around 50% lauric acid so companies that want to produce SLS would just distill the coconut oil further to isolate a higher percentage of lauric acid. However, it is too difficult to get pure lauric acid to create SLS so you never get 100% pure SLS. There’s always some C10, C14, C16 blended in. This is true even when you use petroleum as the starting material.  This is also true of SCS which is made from coconut oil. It’s just that they don’t go the extra step of isolating fatty acids. 

Calling ingredients “natural” is mostly marketing fluff.
Cosmetics are not natural. 

[OldPerry]

Seems illegal to me.

[OldPerry]

They don’t make it easy but here is how you do it.

https://www.fda.gov/Safety/ReportaProblem/ucm059044.htm#Cosmetics

What is the company?

[OldPerry]

0.01% - 0.1%  The supplier will give you suggestions.