• Posted by GARIFUNA on March 25, 2019 at 12:50 pm

    I know that solubilizers are used when adding oils to gel. However if I didn’t care about clarity, or air bubbles, Is high shear mixing enough to keep oil suspended in a gel without worrying about seperation. I have done this before and know that the gel base will turn white which doesn’t bother me but I am concerned about seperation. 
    There is a current product on the market I have tried that has the white milky look and includes oils but from the list of ingredients… I coudn’t identify a solubilizer or emulsifier. So I was wondering if the gel matix ..and I assume high shear mixing is enough to prevent seperation of the phases. Thanks.

    Dtdang replied 5 years ago 6 Members · 14 Replies
  • 14 Replies
  • Microformulation

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 1:30 pm
    You would need to post the Ingredient list of the product you mentioned in order for anyone to weigh-in. I would wager that if one looked, there is a raw material in there that you may simply be unfamiliar with.
    There are numerous ways to gel oils. Many require high sheer mixing (fumed silicas) and some work much better with High Sheer mixing (Sucragel comes to mind).
    You would also want to look at the final Formulation. Are you adding a surfacantto assist with rinse-off? 
  • GARIFUNA

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 1:52 pm

    @microformulation this is the LOI of the product I was referencing where I couldn’t identify either an emulsifier or solubilizer.

    Aqua (Water), Glycerin*, Honey*, Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Juice*, Acrylates Copolymer, Cocos Nucifera (Coconut) Oil*, Orbignya Oleifera (Babassu) Seed Oil*, Butyrospermum Parkii (Shea Butter)*, Maltodextrin/VP Copolymer, Marshmallow Extract, Pectin, Parfum (Fragrance), Carbomer, Xanthan Gum, Dehydroacetic Acid, Benzyl Alcohol 

  • OldPerry

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 2:15 pm

    The polymers like Xanthan Gum and Carbomer keep the particles suspended which might be enough to prevent it from separating. 

  • Microformulation

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 2:19 pm

    Acrylates Copolymer is a Carbopol product (Lubrizol). With the Maltodextrin/VP Copolymer (weird, if I recall correctly that is used more often in hair care), they are producing the gel base. If you search the Forum, this type of Formulation was discussed at length in a past post.

  • GARIFUNA

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 2:36 pm

    Thanks @Perry and @Microformulation. I have worked with Maltodextrin/VP Coplymer and so I know it is the fixative and carbomer and xanthan are polymers and form gels. I was just wondering about the ability of these polymers to hold oils with out any additional emulsifiers or solubilizers.   I am thinking of incorporating 2%  of a light oil or ester in to a gel I make using HEC and xanthan and was wondering if it would seperate. 

  • Microformulation

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 3:24 pm
    It is possible with a small finite amount of oil.
    As a purist, “I am thinking of incorporating 2%  of a light oil or ester in to a gel I make using HEC and xanthan and was wondering if it would separate” simply describes the premise of my next lab experiment. That is really the only way to really know. The materials are pretty inexpensive as well.

  • OldPerry

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 3:49 pm

    Those polymers have the ability to suspend particles. So it wouldn’t surprise me if your system remained stable with those polymers.  Essentially, they become polymeric emulsifiers.

  • Microformulation

    Member
    March 25, 2019 at 5:55 pm
  • Dr Catherine Pratt

    Member
    May 19, 2019 at 8:04 am

    Xanthan won’t give a clear gel, sucrogel mentioned by #mircoformulation has a load of other functionalties as well.. definitely look that one up.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    May 19, 2019 at 11:19 am

    There are varieties of xanthan that are very clear.

  • Dr Catherine Pratt

    Member
    May 19, 2019 at 11:20 am

    Oh thank you I did not know that! Excellent information 

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    May 19, 2019 at 11:29 am

    I only know DIY resellers (for example https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/it/gomma-xanthano-trasparente) unfortunately, but I am sure it’s easy to find. The one above gives transparency close to carbomer (the texture is typical xanthan texture)

  • Microformulation

    Member
    May 19, 2019 at 1:37 pm

  • Dtdang

    Member
    May 20, 2019 at 4:47 pm

    @Perry! 
    ,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":443,"abs_y":4094}”>Carbomer and xanthan gum are water thickener. Why not cetyl alcohol for oil thickener? 
    Carbomer is not strong enough for water thickener? Why just increasing the percentage of carbomer?

    ,"y":98,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":4189}”>Thanks
    ,"y":155,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":4246}”>

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