Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Thickening a high fragrance level, sulfate-free shower gel

  • Thickening a high fragrance level, sulfate-free shower gel

    Posted by Anonymous on March 28, 2019 at 6:08 pm

    Hi,

    I have been experimenting with a formulation of

    Sodium Lauroyl Methyl Isethionate - 10% active matter
    Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate - 4.5% active matter
    Cocamidopropyl Betaine - 7% active matter
    DISODIUM COCOYL GLUTAMATE - 1.5% active matter

    and this produces a very thick clear gel.

    however when I add my perfume at a high level (2%) with PEG 40 HCO (4%) this completely lowers my viscosity.

    I have tried some thickeners (crothix, kaopan TWIS3992) and none seem to rebuild the viscosity (which leads me to believe the fragrance is the issue). any ideas here how to keep the fragrance level & clarity to achieve aprox 6000cps? I would not like to use acrylate co polymer.

    Formula does not thicken with additional salt and I discovered the best amount of CAPB was above by adding this last until maximum viscosity was achieved.

    any help is much appreciated! thanks!

    Aziz replied 4 years, 10 months ago 7 Members · 16 Replies
  • 16 Replies
  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    March 28, 2019 at 7:02 pm

    You are correct it is the fragrance that causesed loss of viscosity. 2% is actually very high.
    You can  try HEC as a thickener and also replacing DISODIUM COCOYL GLUTAMATE  to Cocamide-DEA as it adds viscosity. 
    Just curious is it a ready blend what you are using? 

  • Anonymous

    Guest
    March 28, 2019 at 7:12 pm

    so my suspicions are correct. I will give HEC a go (I think we have some natrosol lying around) -will this influence the flow behavior in anyway?

    It is not a blend however upon research it seems very similar to some Iselux blends

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    March 29, 2019 at 6:17 am

    Yes, all your suspicions are correct. Fragrance (and even peg-40 hco) causes loss of viscousity and not all surfactants can be thickened with salt. Another thought, try to check pH before and after adding fragrance.

  • khoikhoa

    Member
    March 29, 2019 at 7:50 am

    you suggest to perfume supplier that you will use this perfume in clear product so you can reduce quality of solubilizer 

  • oldperry

    Member
    March 29, 2019 at 2:00 pm

    I would use less fragrance too. HEC will not give you the same rheology though. It will be much less gel-like. For a gel you could try a Carbomer like Carbomer EDT2020

  • Dirtnap1

    Member
    March 29, 2019 at 6:39 pm

    polyquaternium-7 may help thicken the base. I made that mistake on my own with a shampoo I was mixing. Added 8oz polyquaternium-7 to 2gal base and it thickened considerably.

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    March 29, 2019 at 6:59 pm

    @Dirtnap1, do you mean polyquaternium- 7 or actually polyquaternium-10?

  • Aziz

    Member
    April 1, 2019 at 4:02 pm

    Perry said:

    I would use less fragrance too. HEC will not give you the same rheology though. It will be much less gel-like. For a gel you could try a Carbomer like Carbomer EDT2020

    Does it make any sense to add fragrance before thickening i e , I add fifty percent of my formula CAPB before adding fragrance and rest fifty parcent and salt after fragrance ? 

  • oldperry

    Member
    April 1, 2019 at 4:10 pm

    @Aziz - maybe. As long as you are not adding the fragrance to a hot batch, you could do it that way.

  • dr-catherine-pratt

    Member
    April 13, 2019 at 9:34 pm
    @Aziz try different EO’s they all reduce viscosity somewhat but some are OK?
    Can I ask which EO’s you are using?
    Also you could try decreasing the EO to 1% and then solubilise in propanediol and add at the end when temperature is under 40C.
    Is this gel for the hair?
  • Aziz

    Member
    April 14, 2019 at 4:48 am

    @”Dr Catherine Pratt” Catherine Pratt ,
     Thanks for your advice .
         I am making Hand Wash , Shower gel/cream and conditioning Shampoos .
    Most of the EOs  affecting viscosity , some affecting less . 
    In cold process gels I add CAPB after perfumes .
       This week I went to chemical market but here Sarcosinates , Glucosides and propanediol  is not available . I have so much limitations .They provide me with RH40 (Polyoxyl castor oil) for transparent gel .
     I am using Lavender , Avocado and Rosemery EOs and various fragrances from Phoenix UK . Using fragrance level below 1% . 
    Can you give some names which EOs affect less the viscosity . 

  • dr-catherine-pratt

    Member
    April 14, 2019 at 8:05 am

    Why are you using Avocado oil?

  • Aziz

    Member
    April 14, 2019 at 6:48 pm

    Why are you using Avocado oil?

    Avocado oil has a very good nourishin and moisturising properties . Using in my face cream/wash along with vitamin E oils . Adding it as an aesthetic and story also . 

  • dr-catherine-pratt

    Member
    April 15, 2019 at 9:39 am

    Ok so you are using Avocado in an emulsion but the EO’s must be brought down in %. 

  • gunther

    Member
    April 15, 2019 at 3:27 pm

    Aziz said:

    Avocado oil has a very good nourishin and moisturising properties . Using in my face cream/wash along with vitamin E oils . Adding it as an aesthetic and story also . 

    Oils won’t have any nourishing or moisturizing properties in a rinse off product, and they will reduce surfactant cleaning abilities.

    Drop EOs to fragrance levels
    or better yet, reduce EOs to claim levels and use a synthetic fragrance, if your marketing story allows it.

  • Aziz

    Member
    April 15, 2019 at 5:52 pm

    Ok so you are using Avocado in an emulsion but the EO’s must be brought down in %. 

    In fact EOs are not popular and I have a very limited use . Fragrance oils and perfumes are used most of the times and it is below 1% level .
       Pumpkin and cucumber like smell of Avocado is very favourite to me and perhaps it is a good choice for face wash IMO . Thanks a lot . 

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