Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Conditoner with Cetrimonium Chloride

  • Conditoner with Cetrimonium Chloride

    Posted by myraqureshi on March 28, 2019 at 12:55 pm

    Im trying to formulate a conditioner using cetrimonium chloride.  We need to thicken the end product (client doesnt want to use BTMS) and most carbomers dont have a nice feeling on hair.  We tried to use Guar.  Has anyone any experience with this?

    Does anyone know if Guar (Guar Hydroxypropyltromonium Chloride) (C13) is compatible with Cetrimonium Chloride?

    I find that it is making the end product “grainy”.  Any feedback welcome.

    ngarayeva001 replied 4 years, 11 months ago 7 Members · 13 Replies
  • 13 Replies
  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    March 28, 2019 at 12:59 pm

    Post the formula. How much cetearyl alcohol are you using?

  • OldPerry

    Member
    March 28, 2019 at 1:03 pm

    Yeah, we would need to know all the ingredients. And also, how thick do you want it? HEC is another option.  But we made a conditioner with cetrimonium chloride that only thickened with Cetyl & Stearyl alcohols & Glyceryl Stearate.

  • myraqureshi

    Member
    March 28, 2019 at 1:12 pm

    The same formulation below without Guar is “thin”

    Water Phase
    Aqua Q/S
    Guar 1%
    PG 2%
    EDTA 0.3%
    Aloe Vera Gel 0.5%
    Allantoin 2%
    Cetrimonium Chloride 0.5%

    Oil Phase
    Crodamol STS 3%
    Crodamol Ab 1%
    Cetostearyl Alcohol 4%
    Jojoba Oil (macerated with Hibiscus and Moringa) 0.5%
    Cetyl Alcohol 2%
    Glyceryl monostearate 1.5%
    Stearic Acid 0.5%   (added to try and thicken)

    Phase C
    D Panthenol 0.5
    Ethylhexlyglycerin & Phenoxyethanol 1%

  • myraqureshi

    Member
    March 28, 2019 at 1:14 pm

    Can someone tell me how I can thicken the above without Guar then?

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    March 28, 2019 at 6:28 pm

    Hmm 6% of fatty alcohols looks like enough to thinken a conditioner. Try to repeat the same experiment without esters, aloe and propylene glycol. It also looks to me that 1.5% of glyceryl stearate might not be enough.. 

  • Gunther

    Member
    March 29, 2019 at 6:54 pm

    The same formulation below without Guar is “thin”

    Water Phase
    Aqua Q/S
    Guar 1%
    PG 2%
    EDTA 0.3%
    Aloe Vera Gel 0.5%
    Allantoin 2%
    Cetrimonium Chloride 0.5%

    Oil Phase
    Crodamol STS 3%
    Crodamol Ab 1%
    Cetostearyl Alcohol 4%
    Jojoba Oil (macerated with Hibiscus and Moringa) 0.5%
    Cetyl Alcohol 2%
    Glyceryl monostearate 1.5%
    Stearic Acid 0.5%   (added to try and thicken)

    Phase C
    D Panthenol 0.5
    Ethylhexlyglycerin & Phenoxyethanol 1%

    0.5% CETAC is too little for a conditioner
    you’d need something like 3% active CETAC so it can both emulsify and thicken the formulation.

    Most commercial CETAC solutions are about 30% active ingredient (i.e. Dehyquart CC7), so you’d need 10% by vol for 3% active CETAC.

  • Chemist77

    Member
    March 30, 2019 at 5:18 am

    Cetyl Alcohol is a big help in such formulations in combination with your cetostearyl alcohol. 

  • Bill_Toge

    Member
    March 30, 2019 at 12:03 pm

    if your GMS is the self-emulsifying grade, it’ll not be compatible with cetrimonium chloride; it contains sodium stearate, which is anionic

  • myraqureshi

    Member
    April 26, 2019 at 9:13 pm

    Thank you very much lovely people.
    we removed Guar because it was being grainy as well (even after adjusting for lower pH)
     

    We have added cetyl alcohol 2 percent and have also increased glyceryl monostearate and CTAC Looks better but scared what will happen once we homogenize in production. Currently stability testing and will come back with more news

    THANK YOU 
    you guys are awesome 

  • Gunther

    Member
    April 27, 2019 at 1:35 am

    I seem to recall that GMS destabilizes cationic emulsions, even if it’s not the SE grade.

  • Vnnil

    Member
    April 27, 2019 at 1:41 am

    Try 2.0% active CETAC + 5.0-6.0% cetyl alcohol + 1.0% GMS

  • Gunther

    Member
    April 30, 2019 at 8:25 pm

    Vnnil said:

    Try 2.0% active CETAC + 5.0-6.0% cetyl alcohol + 1.0% GMS

    Chemist77 said:

    Cetyl Alcohol is a big help in such formulations in combination with your cetostearyl alcohol. 

    How results differ from using cetyl instead of cetearyl alcohol?

  • ngarayeva001

    Member
    April 30, 2019 at 8:42 pm

    @Gunther cetyl is less draggy which translates into more elegant product.

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