OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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How is this different than the efforts to codify “hypoallergenic”? The FDA tried, but it was struck down by the courts. https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-labeling-claims/hypoallergenic-cosmetics
I suppose that since this is coming through congress that might make things different but we see how much they get done.
Perhaps I’m a bit more cynical but it makes sense to me these groups would outwardly support the legislation while actually be doing things to prevent passage. The NPA or EWG or COSMOS make money by having companies get certified under their natural standard. If the government sets the standard you would cut off a significant revenue source for those organizations. Unless of course, they can get themselves written in as certifying bodies, but that is not a given. It’s likely if something like this is passed these organizations will follow the same tactic that the Leaping Bunny group is doing in the EU, claiming the standards aren’t strict enough & that only LP is the real standard. (e.g. https://www.crueltyfreeinternational.org/what-we-do/corporate-partnerships/prohibitions-cosmetics-testing-eu-and-elsewhere )
It’s already illegal to sell unsafe cosmetics (natural or otherwise).
How is this good for consumer protection? -
The only way to really answer your question is to test the sample as to whether you get microbial growth (challenge test). Any advice I give is just a reasonable guess but individual circumstances will vary.
If your glycerites have a low level of water activity then you probably don’t need additional preservative. That’s why something like Honey which is high in sugar doesn’t typically need preservation. There is not enough available water for microbes to grow. Since your not adding additional water but just adding to the propanediol, you probably don’t need additional preservation. But only testing can tell you for sure.
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1. Is distributing illegal? It’s perfectly fine to copy the function of a formulation. You can’t use someone’s trademarked name or violate their patent but otherwise there is nothing to stop a “knockoff.” In fact, Suave shampoo brags that it is a knockoff of professional shampoo brands.
2. Knockoff is not defined by the law. Specific formulas can be patented which means you can’t violate the patent. And brand names can be trademarked which means you can’t copy someone’s name or artwork. Store brands (private label) from Kroger or Walgreens unabashedly knockoff more mainstream brands.
3. Yes, people have been sued for selling knockoffs. If the companies are violating the laws mentioned above they might lose. If they aren’t, they’ll probably win.
4. Finding water percentage - Yes, weighing a sample then drying it (evaporating off the water) is a good way to estimate the water content in a formula. It’s not perfect as there are other things that could evaporate off with the water or some of the water might be bound up by other molecules, but as a rough estimation, that technique works.
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We’ll see if this goes anywhere. The FDA wasn’t even able to define “hypoallergenic” so I find it hard to believe that this natural definition will get past all the hurdles. There are so many competing interests too. The natural standard people won’t want the law passed, the greenwashers of the world won’t want it passed, and the anti-regulation people will be against it too.
I find this part to be BS also - “We’re talking about safety and health of millions of Americans who use these products. “ The bill will do nothing in regards to the safety of cosmetic products. It’s already illegal to sell unsafe cosmetic products.
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I suspect “10 free” means free of the 10 vilified ingredients found in nail products as in https://www.mentedcosmetics.com/blogs/the-ment/whats-7-free-nail-lacquer .
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The first thing you should do is to figure out the relative percentages of your ingredients. Volumetric measurements are less helpful for formulating. That might be fine for home chefs but for cosmetic formulating & even industrial manufacture of food, ingredients are listed in terms of percentages.
The easiest way to do this is to weigh the mass of each of your compounds.
e.g. = 16 cups of Sodium Bicarbonate ~ 3700 g
4 cups powdered sugar = 460 g
8 cups citric acid = 2300 gOnce everything is in the same unit of measurement, you have a formula in which you can experiment and people can give you useful answers.
But PEG 200 is derived from natural ingredients so I don’t know how much more natural you’ll be able to get. In this formula it is a binding agent with adhesive properties. Maybe something like Ethylcellulose or Methylcellulose might work.
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To be safe, I would add additional preservative. Your surfactants probably have water in them unless they are powders.
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Change in texture is likely caused by a fluctuation in moisture content. So, a pressed powder loses moisture (through evaporation) and this causes it to start to crumble. This could also cause a color change and the patchiness you describe.
Odor changes are a result of any or all of the following:
1. The fragrance evaporating
2. The fragrance molecules experiencing oxidation
3. The oxidation of other ingredients in the product causing rancidity -
Minoxidil
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Or you might try Stearalkonium Chloride.
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@janele - there are two things I could ask.
1. What exactly does it mean to “promote hair growth”? Does that mean that it makes hair grow? That is to say, if I did a study where I topically applied keratinocyte growth factor and measured hair growth, would it work better than a placebo?
2. What study has convinced you that topically applied keratinocyte growth factor makes hair grow?
Usually a phrase like “promotes hair growth” is used by marketers to be vaguely saying that it makes hair grow without actually saying it makes hair grow. It’s similar to the claim “supports the immune system.”
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There is no reason I can think of that Caprylyl glycol wouldn’t be compatible with EDTA.
I still don’t know what you mean by “mold substance”. What does it look like?
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If you’re working with powders and worrying about it, you might get a portable lab fume hood. Then you can weigh your powders in there. But typically, you don’t have to worry much about powders if you are measuring a small amount and you have good ventilation in the room you’re working in.
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Yes, pretty much just claims ingredients
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@Gunther is correct. Most anything that would have moisturizing effects will be washed away by the surfactants. Glycerin certainly will be washed away. Cleansers are designed to remove things from the skin.
PQ7 might plate out by not enough to leave a continuous film on the skin. I don’t think you have to worry about PQ7 being comedogenic.
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I’m not sure I understand. When you say “as soon as I add phenoxyethanol…” does that mean like immediately? Because you are not going to see mold grow immediately like that.
You’ll also need to list all the ingredients in your formula. There is some reaction going on but without all the ingredients there is no way to really know.
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Yes, gelatin beads can float like that. Beads can be suspended in a formula using an acrylic polymer like Carbomer or even Xanthan gum.
Irregular sizes are not unexpected. When they produce beads like this the process results in particles with a range of sizes.
You can find more information about gelatin beads here.
http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjps/v52n4/2175-9790-bjps-52-04-00603.pdf -
Or they could be gelatin beads. They dont actually do anything but make the product look unique.
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I don’t think they can replace them. Esters are generally not slightly “surfactanty-ish” like Alcohols (-OH) and Acids (-COOH)
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@ngarayeva001 - Questions like these really boil down to aesthetic choices but I agree that a silicone could replace pretty much any type of butter or oil in terms of performance.
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@shuchi - No, you can’t correct that batch. If it’s just personal use, you could try blending it off with other batches over time. For example, blend 10 parts a new batch with 1 part of the bad batch. This is what large manufacturers will sometimes do if the ingredient list allows for it.
Or you could just discard it.
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I’m not sure everyone would agree with the assessment that it is “quite safe.” I think it can be safely used, but it is more dangerous than most other cosmetic ingredients.
There’s some interesting information about hydroquinone safety here.
https://cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient/hydroquinone“CIR concluded that hydroquinone is safe at concentrations of ≤ 1% in cosmetic formulations designed for discontinuous, brief use followed by rinsing from the skin and hair. “
“In 1982, FDA published a rule proposing that OTC skin bleaching drug products containing 1.5 to 2 percent hydroquinone be generally recognized as safe and effective (GRASE). Subsequently, in 2006, FDA published a proposed rule that would withdraw the 1982 rule, along with a recommendation for additional studies to be conducted before a final determination on regulatory status can be made.”
But also…
“Physicians have been safely and effectively using hydroquinone to treat disorders of skin pigmentation, most commonly hyperpigmentation (i.e., skin darkening), for over 50 years. These uses were reaffirmed by the American Academy of Dermatology’s (AAD) 2006 letter to FDA, which outlined their scientific belief that 4% hydroquinone is safe and effective and an important therapy for many patients.”
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Since you can define pollution however you like, I don’t see any problem with the legality of making an anti-pollution claim.
I’m not sure what you’re asking about though. Anti-pollution is just a marketing trend which is rather easy to adapt a standard cosmetic formula to make anti-pollution claims. There is nothing particularly special about anti-pollution formulas.
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@Pharma - The thing is that I’m on their side and share their goal of having a clean environment in which all organisms can thrive and survive. Unfortunately, environmental groups seem to rely on emotional arguments rather than scientific ones when defining the problem & solutions.
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I do not know the answer to your questions. I work on shampoo/body wash systems and not much in dish washing. For cosmetic products, you do need to add a secondary surfactant like Cocamidopropyl Betaine to get good foam. I just don’t know if that is the same type of foam you need for washing dishes.