OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Old formulas. I don’t believe Triclosan is allowed in the US any longer.
https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/5-things-know-about-triclosan -
What is your manufacturing procedure? You probably are not properly dispersing the celluose.
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I guess it comes down to where you get your information from.
Credo Beauty is a marketing company. They do not do any research themselves. The information they provide should not be taken as serious and can be mostly dismissed as biased information. They benefit from scaring consumers away from buying standard beauty products into buying more expensive, less effective beauty products. This is their motivation.
Similarly, the EWG is a fear mongering group and any information that they publish can also be be dismissed. They do not do ANY research themselves.
This is not to say that they are necessarily publishing misinformation, but at best they are publishing second hand information that they specifically translate into something that supports the marketing or fear narrative that they want to communicate.
Bottom line is that you should go to the direct sources and ignore indirect sources like EWG and Credo.
Belinda is well-meaning and provides less biased information, but she is not an expert in the environmental impact of ingredients. Like the other two sources she provides second hand information. I would trust her information over the other two examples but none of them are wholly reliable because they don’t directly do the research.
So, you have to go to the research. This research article says they can be biodegraded. - http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.612.8864&rep=rep1&type=pdf
So does this article - https://journals.asm.org/doi/pdf/10.1128/aem.65.5.2276-2278.1999
Granted these articles don’t say specifically that high molecular weight silicones are biodegraded in the environment, but at least under specific conditions silicones are biodegradable. In waste water, they are degraded.
And the research from Dow Corning isn’t necessarily inaccurate but it’s worth being a bit skeptical. They certainly wouldn’t publish data that says the product they sell is building up in the environment. However, they also aren’t going to wholly make up a biodegradation mechanism which is what the paper describes. So, I would be confident that under the right conditions silicones do degrade in the environment.
If you really want to immerse yourself in the subject here is a review paper published by people who are actual environmental scientists.
They say “…knowledge of siloxanes’ environmental behavior and fate is surprisingly scarce as compared to their material flows and economic significance.“
And conclude that “While there was much progress in organosiloxane analytics during the past decade, fundamental research on their fate in the various environmental compartments did not keep pace.“
Basically, we don’t know & more research is required.
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Yeah, this isn’t a properly written List of Ingredients. Water is obviously the most abundant material and should be listed first. I suspect someone who knows little about labeling rules put together the list from their formula. It’s highly unlikely they would be using 1.5% of this preservative. Especially when 0.02% is usually enough.
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And don’t use so much aloe. 0.1% is plenty.
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@nelson - an emulsifier is a chemical. Unless you share with us the names of all of the chemicals in your system, there is not much help anyone can give you. The emulsifier to use depends on what ingredients you are trying to combine. See the forum instructions video.
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Tea tree oil might have some effect.
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use an emulsifier
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In this anti-wrinkle study, the researchers used a 0.5% solution of beta glucan and claim to see some results.
In truth, once you start mixing in a bunch of different ingredients like glycols, sodium PCA, or other anti-aging materials, it all starts to become redundant making most of your ingredients superfluous.
If you want to highlight beta glucan as your star ingredient, make it your star ingredient. Don’t add a bunch of other things that will simply compete with the effectiveness of the material.
Of course, if your goal is to make the best performing product, then I would suggest a different approach.
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To provide you helpful answers you’ll have to tell us what other ingredients are in your formula. Also, what do you hope the Beta Glucan will do in your formula?
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When you say “aggregate” do you mean that it clumps together?
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The text version of the course is available. You could try to translate it. I think Google Translate might work.
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Thanks everyone!!
I feel fortunate that I can pass on what I’ve learned & learn a lot myself. -
I guess the idea is that you want to make sure that your batch initially was not contaminated. Yes, if a sample exhibits growth then you would reformulate. That way we didn’t have to wait 8 weeks to see if the preservative system was going to fail.
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We did it at two points.
1. Initially when stability testing began.
2. Next at 8 weeks of stability with samples at 45C -
I don’t exactly understand your request. What aspect of your formula do you want to improve?
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You’ll have to be more specific in your question.
What is “fabcon”?
Is that some trade name? Please post the INCI name or a better explanation for what fabcon is.
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You’ll need to post all the ingredients in your formula to get any good suggestions. Because if propylene glycol is thinning it out you might need to make more significant changes to the formula.
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@michalby - agreed, not all proteins are going to be denatured by dehydrating them. That these guys can manage to continue living under extreme circumstances is proof of that. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tardigrade
But dehydrating and rehydrating aloe is not going to bring all of the proteins and their structures back.
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Quick answer - yes, polysorbate 20 should help. See this.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/5219/question-about-vitamin-e-solubilityHowever, it may also help for you to understand why your blend wasn’t stable. That’s because oils like Vitamin E is a non-polar molecule while Glycerin and most of the components of Aloe vera (98%+ water) are polar molecules. Polar molecules are not generally compatible with non-polar molecules. Basically, oil and water don’t mix.
A surfactant like Polysorbate 20 is compatible with both oil and water. So, pretty much whenever you have a situation where you are trying to combine oil materials with watery materials, you’ll need a surfactant to make that happen.
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Since this is a water soluble ingredient that you add after the creation of the oil in water emulsion, you may be able to still post add the keratin. No, it shouldn’t alter the pH much.
In truth, keratin doesn’t have much impact on product performance. Especially if you have Dimethicone & BTMS in the formula.
I personally think your formula is too complicated and bloated with unnecessary ingredients. For example, panthenol, keratin, aloe vera gel & vitamin e oil are not doing much in your formula. If you accidentally forgot these ingredients, you shouldn’t expect much performance difference.
The ingredients that matter for performance in your formula are
Dimethicone & BTMS. With 2% dimethicone you’re not going to see much effect from the oils in your formula. Also, the Polyquat 7 or the Guar will have an effect but you don’t need both. They do the same thing. -
what ingredients are in your formula?
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I’ll answer the bonus question - It looks like you have a lot of redundant ingredients.
These three all work by the same mechanism and will compete with each other. You only need one.
Behentrimonium Chloride
Dicetyldimonium Chloride
Stearamidopropyl DimethylamineThese two work by the same mechanism and will compete with each other. You only need one.
Polyquaternium-7
Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride -
On dehydrating…What would I lose from the Aloe Gel (raw product, right out of the plant) by dehydrating it?
This is difficult to say without knowing what it is you are hoping the aloe gel will do on the skin. There is scant scientifically based evidence that topical aloe vera gel will have much beneficial impact on skin. So, if that is the case if you dehydrate it then rehydrate it doesn’t matter. And even if you are only looking for the aloe to provide humectancy, dehydrating it and rehydrating it probably won’t have much effect on it’s ability to do that.
However, if you are of the belief that aloe will have some benefit on the skin due to the biomolecules then that is a different story. When you dehydrate a plant you break down the natural structure of the proteins & other biomolecules. You jumble the polysaccharides & sugars and you evaporate off some of the phenolic compounds. Rehydrating will not bring back any of the evaporated materials. It will also not reform the secondary structures of most of the dehydrated proteins. The sugars will of course absorb the water but there is no guarantee it will reform the structure it had before you dehydrated it.
Think of beef jerky. If you take a steak and dehydrate it, you’ll get beef jerky. But if you put beef jerky in a bowl full of water you aren’t going to get back a steak. It’s nearly identical to what happens when you dehydrate/rehydrate aloe.
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On preservatives…What you need to understand about preservation is that the term is used differently in the food and the cosmetic industries.
Food preservation refers to preserving the flavor & preventing microbial growth. Cosmetic preservation really only refers to preventing microbial growth. Vitamin E is an antioxidant. Rancidity is caused by the oxidation of fatty acids and other flavor chemicals in foodstuff. So, in the food industry Vitamin E (or other antioxidants) are called preservatives. But it will have no impact on microbial growth.
All you need to remember is that when you hear the term preservative in reference to cosmetics it is always referring to ingredients that kill microbes or prevent their growth.
Additionally, an emulsified oil soluble preservative will not work in water based formula. Microbes rely on water to survive. So when you want to preserve a formula you need a preservative that is compatible with water. You need the microbes to interact with the preservative so they will be killed. When you emulsify ingredients you essentially wall them off from the water so they will have no interaction or effect on microbes swimming in the water.
As to “mix” and “emulsify”
A way to think about emulsification is that it is a means to combine otherwise incompatible ingredients by using an emulsifier. Water based ingredients do not generally combine/mix with oil based ingredients. That’s why oil and vinegar salad dressings come in two layers. Vinegar is water based, oil is oil based. When you use an emulsifier what happens is you make tiny droplets of oil that get encapsulated (emulsified) in the emulsifier and walled off from the water. They stay suspended but they don’t actually interact with the water.
When we talk about mixing things together, that is typically in reference to blending ingredients that are compatible. That is what the term “soluble” means. So, when you mix water with alcohol or glycerin they are compatible and they make a solution. The molecules actually blend together and can interact with each other. This is different from an emulsion where the molecules stay separate.