OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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@Abdullah - yes - Steinberg Preservative book
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I once made a big batch of white conditioner. When I poured it out, there was a big yellow streak near the bottom. It turned out, I had unknowingly dropped a small metal “chuck” (device to tighten the mixer) in the batch. I think it oxidized. Perhaps you have excessive metal ions in your water in one batch that you didn’t have in your other batch.
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@Karo_lina - No, that would be 2 ingredients. If the ingredient is in the formula less than 1% than the order in which you list those ingredients doesn’t matter. Also, the percentage doesn’t matter.
However, if you are using higher than 1%, then the order could matter.
For example, suppose you use 1.5% of the Persea Gratissima Oil & Hydrogenated vegetable oil ingredient.
If the composition was 90% vegetable oil and 10% Gratissima oil, then you would have to list the vegetable oil above the 1% line because it makes up more than 1% of the formula (90% X 1.5% = 1.35%). You could list the other ingredient anywhere you like under the 1% line.
But if the composition was 50% vegetable oil & 50% Gratissima oil, then you could list the ingredients in any order you want below the 1% line. This is because neither of those ingredients would make up >1% of the formula.
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@ketchito - Cetrimonium Chloride is only allowed in leave-on at 0.25%.
“Three quaternary ammonium salts used as cosmetic ingredients, cetrimonium chloride, cetrimonium bromide, and steartrimonium chloride, were found to be safe for use in rinse-off
products and safe for use at concentrations of up to 0.25% in
leave-on products by the Cosmetic Ingredient Review (CIR)
Expert Panel in 1997.” - from CIR-safety review. -
Yes, if you want to call something Aloe Vera soap you will need to include some aloe vera in the formula.
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She is not right. You can find labeling rules here.
If a company puts niacinamide in their formula, then they have to list it on the label.
I’ll add that it is not surprising someone who learned everything about the cosmetic industry by doing Google searches and their own research comes to erroneous conclusions. There is a benefit to have actually worked in the cosmetic industry.
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@Stanley - Yes, any ingredient in the formula in a concentration 1% or below can be listed in any order that you like. The rules are a little different in the EU in that they require colorants to be listed at the end.
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@Stanley - in the cosmetic industry, the ultimate responsibility for claims, labeling, product safety, and pretty much everything else is on the product manufacturer. It is their responsibility to ensure that they are following all the FDA regulations. You can’t make a mistake and then blame it on the raw material supplier. The FDA will not care. You will still be responsible for paying the fine and fixing the mistake.
If it was indeed the raw material supplier’s mistake that caused you to make a mistake, you would have to sue them to get compensation.
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No, not ok. In the US you are supposed to use INCI names
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You’ll need to provide the rest of the ingredients to get helpful suggestions
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@suswang8 - I agree. The humectant in a moisturizer is not the primary ingredient that improves skin moisturization. That is mostly the occlusive agent. If you did a TEWL on glycerin vs petrolatum, petrolatum wins in the long run.
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They suspend the Dimethicone. This is used in 2-in-1 shampoos.
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It’s a hydrotrope used to help suspend and help silicon better deposit on hair.
See this article on what hydrotopes are and why they are used.
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Dimethiconol might do the trick. (water soluble silicone)
Maybe Propylene Glycol would help
Or some emollients.
It really depends on what else is in your formula. -
You can see this post on cosmetic stability testing
And this webinar on stability testing too.
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Strange. I wouldn’t think this ingredient would stratify. Perhaps it’s the result of one of the other ingredients you’re using.
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It’s not from a book. It’s from an article in the Journal of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists. Specifically…
Silicones as conditioning agents in shampoos
AuthorYAHAGI, K
Kao Corp., Tokyo Research Laboratories, Sumida-ku, Tokyo 131, JapanSource
Journal of the Society of Cosmetic Chemists. 1992, Vol 43, Num 5, pp 275-284 ; ref : 6 ref
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You have to begin with the question of why stability test is done in the first place. Stability testing is supposed to help you predict what will happen to the product during shipping, storage, on store shelves and when used in a reasonable manner by a consumer.
Stability testing is not done to see if you can make the formula oxidize or otherwise break down.
We put the product in final packaging because that is how the product will exist out on the market.
We test heated up versions of the unopened product because that is what the bottles will experience when put into vehicles, shipped across countries, and stored in manufacturing facilities. It’s also why we test freeze thaw samples.
There is also the notion that the speed of chemical reaction will occur twice as fast with every 10C increase in temperature. The Arrhenius equation I believe. So, if you want to know what might the formula look like in 1 year at RT, you can increase the temp to 35C for 6 months, or 45C for 3 months. It’s not an exact science but that’s the idea.
To me, RH does not really matter to products stored in glass or plastic bottles. However, it is one of the controlled factors as outlined by the PCPC stability guidelines.
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This is a pretty big brand using it. https://www.globalcosmeticsnews.com/peter-thomas-roth-pumpkin-enzyme-mask/
Of course, the real preservation comes from Phenoxyethanol and the organic acids in there but they include leucidal.
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Glycerin is water soluble so from a shampoo standpoint, it does nothing. The only sensible reason for adding it is as a solvent for some other ingredient or to help prevent the formula from drying out in a pump. It has no functional purpose in a shampoo. No, it doesn’t detangle or condition hair.
Panthenol is what we call a “claims” ingredient. It has not real noticeable effect in a shampoo. It is water soluble and washes down the drain. I’ve used up to 5% in a formula and saw no difference in performance versus 0%.
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Stability testing is supposed to represent a model of what happens under real world conditions. It is not a perfect model and the results can only give you a prediction of what will happen in the future. But it’s quite possible something passes stability testing then on the market it isn’t stable.
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If I were buying a formula, I would want the following.
- Ingredient percentages
- Ingredient names & suppliers
- Ingredient specifications
- Manufacturing procedure (including specific equipment types used)
- Final product specifications
- Packaging specification (if there are any)
- Test data and procedures (including any claims & how they are supported)
- MSDS
- All info needed for EU product dossier
I don’t imagine everyone selling formulas would want to provide this though.
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Also, a list of appropriate suppliers and specifications for each ingredient.
Really, anything you would need to know to make the product could be part of IP.
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You’ll need to post chemical names (INCI names) of the ingredients you are using to get a helpful response.
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@Abdullah - It’s 0.6% in the EU and 0.3% in Japan.
I said 1% because DMDM Hydantoin is sold as a 55% solution. So, if you use 1% of that in a formula, you would be at 0.55%.