OldPerry
Forum Replies Created
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Here are my thoughts on the subject of stem cells in cosmetics.
Basically, I think they are promising but the technology at the moment is simply a claims ingredient with little to no benefit.I’m also highly skeptical that people will see any real effects from topically applied growth factors. These may show promise in cell cultures in the lab but this has not translated into actual topically applied products.
Some derms are better trained than others and while their advice about skin diseases and conditions is reliable, I’d have much less faith in their advice about daily skin care maintenance. They are easily misinformed & some are motivated to get you to buy into a marketing story so you buy products from them.
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I suppose theoretically if enough water was lost you could push the system to the other side of the salt curve and start losing viscosity.
See in this diagram in this surfactant system that viscosity peaks at a salt concentration around 1% and drops off around 1.6%
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/shows-the-salt-curves-for-the-SLES-alone-and-in-the-presence-of-the-four-additives-The_fig13_255766342 -
Interesting question.
I think you will find that your premise that you can eliminate the peroxide and still get the same “conditioning” effect is flawed.
The developer without Hydrogen Peroxide is simply a blend of standard fatty alcohols/acids that are found in pretty much any other conditioner. These ingredients have no ability to adhere to the hair and will simply rinse away.
The other ingredients do not “protect” the peroxide. The reason they are in there is to protect the hair from the more damaging effects of the peroxide and to help make it easier to spread through the hair.
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Colloidal solutions are complicated systems which can take on most any of the defined conformations. You would have to do a phase diagram to determine what the prevalent structures are of any given system. Each system is different
Basically, it’s complicated.
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You need to always be skeptical of ingredient advice from companies that are trying to sell you ingredients. That isn’t to say that they are lying, but claims like “multifunctional” and “influence preservation” are vague things that don’t mean anything specific.
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Did you ever see Kool Aide color your fingers? Yes, you can color hair (especially grey hair) with direct dyes. The problems are…
1. Very few color options / shades
2. Doesn’t cover colored hair
3. Inconsistent staining.But yeah, it can work without peroxide.
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@DaveStone - If an ingredient made a significant enough difference, the cost would not be much concern to a big company. There are plenty of expensive skin brands owned by big companies.
Also, these companies would get economies of scale that small companies wouldn’t get & they have distribution channels that other companies don’t have.
I think the most likely explanation is the ingredient hasn’t caught on because it doesn’t bring any thing new to the table (beyond a marketing story).
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Yes, the micelles break down & reform.
The system is dynamic & the picture you shared is simply a metaphorical snapshot in time. The molecules don’t actually stay in positions like that for very long. This video gives a better sense of what is going on. But remember it is also just a metaphorical illustration.
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@drjayseesunish - well, I wouldn’t agree that if soap leaves a smooth silky feel that it’s only because of the oil. Dove has no oil in it. https://www.target.com/p/dove-white-moisturizing-beauty-bar-soap/-/A-84780837?preselect=11012602#lnk=sametab
It also contains almost no “soap” and is made up of primarily synthetic surfactants like sodium isoethionate, cocamidopropyl betaine, etc. The better feeling skin is based on the fact that it doesn’t feel drying to skin like a true soap. Those surfactants just feel better on the skin plus they are a little harder to rinse off than other surfactants. -
My guess is because it doesn’t really work that much better.
As far as pricing goes, it’s likely that big companies can get a better price on BTMC than on BAPDMA. The reason small resellers can’t is because all the big companies buy all BTMC & they ignore the BAPDMA. -
This is not new technology. The paper was published in 2012. So, you have to ask yourself, why would a brilliant technology that has been known about for more than a decade not have taken off?
Why would an excellent anti-aging compound languish in obscurity for years? Why wouldn’t the big guys (P&G, Unilever, L’Oreal, Estee Lauder, etc) launch products that feature this great working ingredient?
I think the answer is pretty simple…the ingredient doesn’t do much that is noticeable to consumers.
A reasonable heuristic is, if a big company isn’t using an ingredient, the ingredient probably doesn’t provide noticeable benefits.
Of course, the opposite is NOT true. Just because a big company includes an ingredient doesn’t mean that it actually does anything.
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I would say mainly because there are not a lot of good, plentiful sources of C22 fatty acids, while nearly every natural oil source is made up of some C18.
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Probably not but you could ask some other supplier what theirs is. It wouldn’t be a bad guess to assume they are about the same. Although it could be easily wrong
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@amitvedakar - I doubt it. The surfactants are emulsifying oils so most of the salicylic acid will be tied up in a micelle & not in contact with skin.
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First, soap is a surfactant, so when you make a soap-based shampoo you are making a surfactant shampoo. It’s a saponified fatty acid surfactant.
Next, soap, Castile or otherwise, is old technology. The first shampoos were made using it but there is a reason it has been replaced by superior synthetic surfactants. Modern surfactants just work better. And they don’t sting your eyes. A soap based shampoo is just terrible in terms of performance.
If you want conditioning, you get that from a conditioner. Delivering conditioning from a shampoo is inefficient and always inferior to using a conditioner after shampooing.
Forget using soap for a shampoo. It’s like replacing all your light bulbs with candles.
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@Paprik - Unfortunately, HEC is not going to suspend beads. Primarily Carbomer and Xanthan Gum can do that.
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Symrise sells it Biotive® L-Arginine
Ajinomoto - L-ARGININE C
Sino Lion - Evermild™ L-ARG -
I’m a bit skeptical benzoyl peroxide does much from a rinse off product. It is not soluble in water so it likely will just get washed away like all the other oily materials.
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That’s just a pre-pasta-rous idea!
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Paying $90 for 30 subjects = $2700 just in subject fees. So, the extra $600 is their gross. Subtract business expenses, eg salaries of the people doing the test, rental of the office, any fee to the dermatologist. That is a razor thin margin right there.
I would expect that should be more like $5400 but perhaps I’m missing something.
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I don’t understand your question. You CAN use natural things for making cosmetics. The first cosmetics were made using natural things.
But, for the most part, using natural materials to make cosmetics will lead to inferior products. The products may still work, they just don’t work as well as products made using synthetically produced or modified ingredients.
Think of it like this…a horse is a perfectly natural and effective way to get from one place to another. But a car is obviously superior for almost every instance in modern society.
Synthetic ingredients in cosmetics have replaced their inferior rivals because synthetic things just work better. Of course sometimes the story of something being natural will be more important than the performance of the product. But if you are looking to make the best working products, you’ll need synthetic ingredients to accomplish that.
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To get Carbomer to thicken you need to neutralize it to a higher level than pH 3. Typically, you should use TEA at the same level of Carbomer. You might alternatively use AMP as a neutralizer.
You have no emulsifier so adding Vitamin E will not work. It is not water soluble.
But the more important question, what are you hoping will be the benefits this product is supposed to have? What do you expect it to do?
It seems like you just want a gel. The saffron isn’t likely to do anything.
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It’s a good humectant on the upper layers of the skin
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Yes the mono-stearate version is more frequently used for pearl effect
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@Microformulation - just to clarify, ALL Professionals participate on a voluntary basis. No one gets paid to post here. And we all very much appreciate it.