Cosmetic Science Talk

Cosmetic Science discussion form. For people who want for formulate cosmetics and get advice from other formulators around the world.

Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Does salicylic acid from facewash or shampoo need cationic polymer as deposition aid to do its job?

  • Does salicylic acid from facewash or shampoo need cationic polymer as deposition aid to do its job?

    Posted by Abdullah on May 31, 2022 at 2:59 am

    If we use 2-3% salicylic acid in facewash or shampoo for anti acne and anti dandruff purpose, should we use a cationic polymer as deposition aid with it or it doesn’t need to deposit to do it’s job? 

    Abdullah replied 8 months, 1 week ago 7 Members · 17 Replies
  • 17 Replies
  • Pharma

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 9:55 am

    In a rinse-off product, it doesn’t do any job other than marketing. Whatever you do, it will simply be flushed down the drain.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 12:30 pm

    @Pharma WOW

    Is it only salicylic acid that doesn’t do anything for acne and dandruff from rinse off product or benzoyl peroxide also doesn’t do anything from rinse off product? 

  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 12:35 pm

    @abdullah:

    The average contact time of a surfactant-based face wash is 20 seconds prior to rinsing.  Unless the active has an impact within that 20 second time frame, it generally will not have much of an effect.  Placebo effect.

  • Perry

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 2:13 pm

    I’m a bit skeptical benzoyl peroxide does much from a rinse off product. It is not soluble in water so it likely will just get washed away like all the other oily materials.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 3:04 pm

    @Perry @MarkBroussard @Pharma   so what about OTC benzoyl peroxide cleansers and salicylic acid cleansers and soap’s?

    Can a product that doesn’t do any benefit except just being a cleanser be called and registered as an OTC drug? 
    If salicylic acid from an OTC cleanser or soap is not doing anything then it is just a cleanser or soap called OTC with doing nothing, right? 

  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 3:35 pm

    @abdullah:

    Yes, any cleanser containing 2% SA and making Acne claims under the FDA monograph would be an OTC.  That is primarily for marketing purposes so you can market it as an Acne OTC product.

  • Pharma

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 3:49 pm

    Products with benzoyl peroxide need to be left on for at least 1-2 minutes, other rinse-off products for example with fungicides require up to 5 minutes (of freezing you butt off in the showers)…

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 4:14 pm

    @abdullah:

    Yes, any cleanser containing 2% SA and making Acne claims under the FDA monograph would be an OTC.  That is primarily for marketing purposes so you can market it as an Acne OTC product.

    Thanks a lot

  • Abdullah

    Member
    May 31, 2022 at 4:20 pm

    @Pharma so these people with acne are leaving a soap with salicylic acid for five minutes on their face to get some benefit or they are rinsing it before one minute and getting no benefit for acne. Am i correct? 

  • zetein

    Member
    June 1, 2022 at 10:03 am
    How does refatting agent like glyceryl oleate or peg-7 glyceryl cocoate or other water soluble esters work? It does give a different feeling and it’s advised to be included in the formula by many experts here.
  • ketchito

    Member
    June 1, 2022 at 11:54 am
  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    June 1, 2022 at 1:36 pm

    @Abdullah

    People with acne will normally use a suite of products, including leave-on products which is where they get the benefit, from the leave-on products, not the cleansers.  But, adding SA to a cleanser certainly will not hurt, it just won’t do very much in terms of effectiveness in delivering an active against acne.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    June 1, 2022 at 1:43 pm

    @Abdullah

    People with acne will normally use a suite of products, including leave-on products which is where they get the benefit, from the leave-on products, not the cleansers.  But, adding SA to a cleanser certainly will not hurt, it just won’t do very much in terms of effectiveness in delivering an active against acne.

    That makes sense
    Thanks a lot

  • amitvedakar

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 6:24 am

    @abdullah:

    The average contact time of a surfactant-based face wash is 20 seconds prior to rinsing.  Unless the active has an impact within that 20 second time frame, it generally will not have much of an effect.  Placebo effect.

    If contact time is increased to 30-60 second with rubbing, will it beneficial?

  • Perry

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 12:53 pm

    @amitvedakar - I doubt it. The surfactants are emulsifying oils so most of the salicylic acid will be tied up in a micelle & not in contact with skin. 

  • Abdullah

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 1:09 pm

    Perry said:

    @amitvedakar - I doubt it. The surfactants are emulsifying oils so most of the salicylic acid will be tied up in a micelle & not in contact with skin. 

    Can’t polymer help salicylic acid deposition the same way it does help silicone deposition?

  • MarkBroussard

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 1:54 pm

    @Abdullah

    In order for SA to be effecive in an acne product, the SA needs to actually penetrate into the hair follicle.  That simply is highly unlikely to happen in a cleanser.

  • Abdullah

    Member
    June 2, 2022 at 2:23 pm

    @Abdullah

    In order for SA to be effecive in an acne product, the SA needs to actually penetrate into the hair follicle.  That simply is highly unlikely to happen in a cleanser.

    Got it
    Thanks