[Pattsi]

https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/1070/how-to-use-this-forum-rules-and-advice#latest

[Pattsi]

Graillotion said:

For CBD (Isolate) topical…I seem to find a trend of about 1%.  Does that seem reasonable?

seem about right if it doesn’t break your cream but seem expensive.

Graillotion said:

Regarding Methyl Salicylate….. Isn’t that pretty much what Wintergreen EO is?

pretty much yes
https://go.drugbank.com/drugs/DB09543
https://patents.google.com/patent/US8889659B2/en
For some idea if you want to combine stuffs or you can look up pain relief cream from India, lots of interesting herbal stuffs.

Graillotion said:

I am looking at Paeonol from Chinese medicine.

cool, interesting never heard of topical use before.

Graillotion said:

I am a FIRM believer in the placebo effect, so some of these ingredients will be included to ‘convince’ people it works.    

Mission accomplished.  

cool, some people convince other what works or not, some people convince themselves what works or not. 

[Pattsi]

Perry said:

 no amount of published medical literature matters.

Totally agree, having the word medical doesn’t mean it rigid enough, even medical textbooks that are widely excepted got reviewed often.

[Pattsi]

Oh my 
“Skin care is a ritual, not a routine”
Their marketing is goop-ish.

[Pattsi]

It’s sublingual/oral dose recommendation.
There’s still no topical recommendation issued yet, the mechanism involved  central nervous system so CBD cream would unlikely works. But who knows it might works for some.

Methyl salicylate, don’t know it is available in cosmetic re-packers?

Since Oregon decriminalizes small amounts of Heroin and Cocaine, you might look into it as well, but be veryyyyyyyyy careful.

[Pattsi]

maybe you can look into w+alc/o sunscreen formulation.

[Pattsi]

Pharma said:

Your boosters are pure marketing, they will not do anything useful. Sorry for popping your dream bubble ;( .

Bottom line is: Create a booster your customers like (because TV hypnosis etc. :blush: ) and which is easily added to whatever shelf-picked product you desire.

Exactly.

For example - Keratin booster.
hydrolyzed keratin   0.0001- 0.1
preservative             0.5-1
add water                 too 100

[Pattsi]

How about a three roll mill?

[Pattsi]

For Neuralgia - lidocaine 5% patch, capsaicin 8% patch for desensitize the nerves.   
Is capsaicin acquirable? But maybe buying 3% Lidocaine cream is easier?

If you want to play with CBD
Recommended Dose - THC:CBD (1:1) 15 – 60 mg/d
For Neuropathic pain (any causes including post-operative pain, cancer pain, non-cancer pain, neuropathic pain, Multiple sclerosis)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28806817/ 
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2430692/
And lots of clinical trials in https://www.clinicaltrials.gov/

And salicylates for superficial pain.

Graillotion said:

  Needs to be items I can easily acquire, not prescription.

IMHO cosmetics actives would not work or you might try looking into traditional Chinese medicine regiment you may find an acquirable ingredient.
Best of luck.

[Pattsi]

Marry Christmas and Happy holidays to all 

[Pattsi]

Have you checked the use of Potassium Hydroxide as callus remover is allowed in U.S?
https://www.fda.gov/media/75758/download

It’s listed only for these
 https://www.accessdata.fda.gov/scripts/cdrh/cfdocs/cfcfr/CFRSearch.cfm?fr=184.1631&SearchTerm=potassium%20hydroxide

Here is the Philippines FDA follow the EU
https://ww2.fda.gov.ph/attachments/article/453569/FDA%20Circular%20No.2017-006-1.pdf

[Pattsi]

https://ec.europa.eu/health/scientific_committees/consumer_safety/docs/sccs_o_154.pdf

[Pattsi]

I think Legality issue is most likely.
Their product have IP and using it without permission or using it out of intent context might get you into legal problems.
To avoid this you might try contact and pursuing from them directly.

[Pattsi]

I don’t know what type of product you are aiming for so I am assuming a facial cream.

Are you making an lamellar structure type? I see 202 and 68.
Lamellar structure - you have to understand how its structure works and the way it is processed. It is doable but it need an understanding. 
There is a quote from Pharma explains about it in another thread, I call it “pea soup explanation”.

jemolian said:

#3

3.0% Mont 202 + 3.0% cetyl alcohol + 0.5% aristoflex

Very thin viscosity.

- Remarks: There’s something going on there, if not aristoflex would produce a lotion at 0.5%. Check your pH. 

I think this is weird too, 3.0% cetyl alcohol + 0.5% aristoflex should at least give a lotiony texture.

Aside from 165 I’m with ggpetrov, Olivem 1000 is one of my favorite emulsifiers too.
Glyceryl stearate citrate + polymers is nice too, Rich and soft but not too light not too heavy.

2% aristoflex - too much.

You can look up free formulations from Hallstar, Evonik, etc. and when you grasp the characteristic and the feeling of your emusifier(s) and emolliences you can tweak it to your liking.

Immersion blenders such as Bosch CleverMixx Baby or Dynamix, etc. is a good tool for non-professional if you have the budget I say go for it, I’m planning to get one too but haven’t decided which one so I only have overhead stirrer to play with.

For natural oils - many blog/internet recipes use at high % but not many brands use that high other than shea butter or cheap oils, but it is depend on your concept and claim(s) you are making too.

I test polymer(s) with water first to get the general idea how much I need it or how it might play out in the formula.

[Pattsi]

Is Octyl Palmitate the same as Ethylhexyl Palmitate? - Yes, but I’m not a chemist so I’m not 100% sure, at least on our LOI it is Ethylhexyl Palmitate.

[Pattsi]

I do not believe that topical HAs do anything other than sit on top of the SC and provide and/or accumulate water from either the product itself which contains water or the atmosphere.

This may not be a good thing for healthy skin since it leads to a disruption of an SC barrier integrity. Why disrupt the SC barrier with water? Skin, like hair, needs oil and not water unless the intent is disrupt the natural oil-based barrier.

I have a different idea-to use the HAs to grab water from the atmosphere and have the HAs remove water before it disrupts the barrier-use HAs as a protectant from water-so why would I want to provide water with a HA ingredient that has been saturated with water? Once HAs are saturated with water, they are more harmful than good-unless your intent is to damage the natural barrier.

If you believe that the HAs penetrate the SC barrier and bring with it water, which I do not, and HAs enter the dermis, which I do not, then the HAs would go into the skin fully saturated with water, damage the barrier and produce leaky skin followed by a cascade of water-infused events with water going in and out of the skin affecting permeability.

However, it is my view that HAs only function from outside the skin by grabbing water and not allowing atmospheric water to harm the SC -if not already fully saturated with water.

So- why add water to a HA formulation. It defeats the purpose of its purported activity!

Then Glycerin and other water-soluble molecule is damaging the SC barrier too? This make me concerned.

[Pattsi]

Leo said:

Has anyone tried to formulate the HAs in an anhydrous formulation or deliver the HAs in a powder form? Any unique delivery systems been tried?

Leo said:

@Perry. Does HA mix well with glycerin? What other agents will mix with the HAs that contain no water?

May I ask why do you not want to use water?

[Pattsi]

For me, I think Pentaerythrityl Tetraisostearate is more of a texturizer than emollience, but it gives a heavy and rich skin feel.

Triethylhexanoin, Octyl Palmitate - skin feel pretty similar with Octyl Palmitate a lot cheaper.

Octyldodecyl Stearoyl Stearate - balmy heavy.

Isostearyl Isostearate - creamy heavy.

Olive Squalane - too heavy on the cost.

[Pattsi]

amitvedakar said:

Perry said:

@amitvedakar - What are you hoping keratin will do in a formula?

That makes hair smooth & shine (as it is marketed). or Is it formulating tecnic
that make shampoo better?

let’s get back to basic - the visible part of the hair is dead.

[Pattsi]

ttk102360 said:

 

Thank you. Part a and b, I will change according to your opinion. Part c, I know polyol too much, but I try to do so, this formula is specifically for people who use a lot of corticosteroids. I tested it with many volunteers. Because, I want to change emulsifier, problematic formulation. Before, I used Seppic’s easynox. After I remake the sample, I’ll give you the results

Are you sure HIP cream will not worsen their conditions?

I don’t think you can get a long-termed stability with stirring.

[Pattsi]

Don’t forget to explain about IP to your customer and state it in the contract.

[Pattsi]

ttk102360 said:

When I stir the cream sample. High viscosity at stirring. After a day, it reduces viscosity. Let me ask why is that. Thanks

meaning your formula is not stable.

[Pattsi]

each polymers or gums have their own characteristics, strength, weakness, many brands use 2-3 to get the desired texture. This is the part you have to work it out.

I see you have syn tc, syn tack and matrixyl 3000.extracts are tumeric and green tea extract, don’t dump everything at max % in your first few batches, try playing with your emulsifier and polymer first so you won’t waste your actives. be patient, or if you have large budget to spend - I say go ahead give it a go, if it fail you can use it on your feet.

happy holidays and happy formulating   

[Pattsi]

I see, you’re starting a brand - Then my humble advice, don’t attempt that route, it’s not worth it when you caught up in lawsuit.

This isn’t the only vitamin C serum formula, in my opinion it is not that good tho it’s just well advertised.

Have your local formulator come up with your own vitamin C serum will be cheaper, if you ship it from China there’re INTERCOM/FEE/TAX etc. to be accounted too. 

[Pattsi]

Are you talking about starting a cosmetics brand or personal use?

If you want to start a brand, there are many professional chemists in this forum, you can contact them.

If it’s for personal use, you can buy L-Ascorbic Acid powder and other ingredients and make a small bottle for yourself. It’s very cheap.