[Paprik]

Yummy … bacteria cannot wait to dig in 🙂 😀

First of all … what is your budged for this formula? 😀

You need to realise all those butters, milk and oil will go down the drain. Actually, some will stick to your face and not really clean it as there is almost nothing to support cleansing.

Total active surfactant matter will be around 1.6%, however it will be killed/busy with taking care of all those butters and oils.

Let’s rewrite the formula, save you some money and make a nice gentle cleanser, ok?

To 100% Water

0.2 Chelating agent

0.3-0.5-ish - Xanthan Gum depending on grade

2-% ish Glycerin just for slurry of XG (but you don’t actually need XG, you can reach nice viscosity with Cetyl alcohol/Cetearyl alcohol)

3-6% Cetyl alcohol (or do you have Cetearyl alcohol? Might be better option)

5-10% Cocamidopropyl Betaine

3-5% Decyl Glucoside

Preservative (Highest recommended/allowed input)

pH to be compatible with all the ingredients especially preservative - aim for as low as possible.

To make it more milder, add superfatting agents if you have any on hand. You can add polyquat-7 for also for example.

I would also look for anionic surfactant - this would be the main cleansing agent. Then support it with amphoteric and nonionic. Remember you do not need high active matter input for face wash as it is a small area. Aim for 3-5%.

If you would also get salt responsive anionic surfactant, thickening would become way easier. 🙂

Hope this helps?

[Paprik]

Oh wow, yeah .. definitely would not fall under commonly available cosmetics at this % and final pH.

Looks like CosIng is broken (couldn’t find corresponding opinion under Lactic acid), but found CIR (cosmetic ingredient review) opinion = ≤10% and pH ≥ 3.5.

https://online.personalcarecouncil.org/ctfa-static/online/lists/cir-pdfs/PR758.pdf

But yeah, your regulations might be different. I would not say by much tho.

From the times when I had acne, I can imagine how much this would hurt and sting if I would apply it on it.

Acne is basically broken skin - try to cut yourself and squeeze lemon juice in it 😀
Definitely not recommended.

My recommendation would be to use some form of serum, which would stay on the skin. It would be weaker and would have time to work. Lactic acid is a great ingredient which allegedly helps to ceramides and skin barrier. I do use it in my facial spray/toner. Used to have a serum, but as formulator I do have 100 serums on hand all the time and could not stick with it 😀

online.personalcarecouncil.org

The resource cannot be found.

The resource cannot be found.

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[Paprik]

Oh yeah, I have a good one too 😀

I got this one for free for my grocery shopping. I guess they could not sell 😀

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[Paprik]

PLEASE .. use a proper preservative. Especially in your “green tea based” product. This sounds delicious to me, .. imagine to bugs 😀

Use chelating agent if possible, use some strong well-known preservative and support it with other ingredient, keep pH as low as possible.

Almost every ingredient can act as a bug food in low inputs.

[Paprik]

If you are looking for clear aka transparent concoction you should look for solubiliser for the oil phase. However if you are using 5% lipid that might be too much.

Some gums might hold a small lipid input too.

I am surprised that Sepimax Zen did not pass? I made Glycolic acid serum with it [huge load of electrolytes] and it was just fine. It has never failed me.

Maybe share you full formula and we will be able to help you more.

[Paprik]

Are you sure you are using proper Menthol?

I have refreshing face wash with 0.15% Menthol in it (if I remember correctly) and it does cool the face and give the fresh feel. I cannot imagine putting more than 0.05% you-know-where ..

[Paprik]

It seems to me you are trying to mix polar and non-polar lipids?

[Paprik]

I think that the area around the nose is usuallly thiner or if you have a cold or something and blow your nose often it can get easily irritated. (?)Or you just have more sensitive area around the nose. Has anyone else tried the product? If so, did they experience the same?

What is the final pH of the product?

[Paprik]

Please supply your full formula and method including final pH.

Or we can also guess colour of your tshirt with the little information you have provided 🙂

[Paprik]

Yeah, the majority of the face oil should be from light esters - Coco Caprylate, IPM, etc …

Aim to around 10-15% of you heavy plant oil (Argan Oil in this case).

Add some Coenzyme Q10 and/or Sea Buckthorn oil for marketing and you have a great product. 🙂

[Paprik]

I also finished the Diploma.

I was in the “business” for maybe 2 years and felt like I needed some upgrade and as I am close to AUS, I decided for this one.

This is the only program I took so I cannot compare it with anything [Except some free ones from Botanica and similar and loads of YouTube videos and articles]. I believe the program is quite nice and will definitely teach you something new.

I believe Belinda has three kids and one of them is autistics, so she has some kind of “touch” when teaching as she understands different feels and needs. She usually goes with the provided text in the videos and explains things along.

Some people learn by listening, some by reading some by writing it down.

Also, the text is usually detailed and after she sums everything in a nice table.

I typically watched the video and read the text after.

The videos are boring sometimes. She does repeat stuff a lot.

The good thing about this program is that you get access to their Dropbox for life. They always update their texts with new information and also add new information.

Another good thing is you have access to FB group for Students and Graduates and can ask anything, share your brand etc. Plus once a month there is a live video where they answer your questions.

The only thing I didn’t like was the email support. Not sure if all trainers are like this, but Tasmin wasn’t always super helpful. I did not get usually like proper answer. Or at least didn’t feel like it. And it wasn’t only my feel as I am in touch with others [we do have a group in AKL] and they agreed.

But yeah, if you have the money, time and will, do it. The more information you get the better 🙂

[Paprik]

I have been taught that ≤5% water, which should bring the available water ( a<sub style=”background-color: var(-bb-content-background-color); font-family: inherit; color: var(-bb-body-text-color);”>w </sub>) to <0.6, should inhibit any microbial growth. However, if there is a chance that water will be introduced, I would use those mentioned preservatives at low recommended inputs.

[Paprik]

So you actually mean “solubilised oil in water” formulas.

You should be looking for solubilisers. Check your suppliers and see what do they have under this name 🙂

Few examples :

Polysugamulse D9 is a very good one.

Caprylyl/Capryl Glucoside

Lamesoft OD

If you would use an emulsifier you would get a milky looking product.

[Paprik]

I still do not understand why people are putting anionic substances (EDTA) into cationic systems.

But I have seen it a lot. Those two will react together and form insoluble substances.

Without your full formula we won’t be able to help you much.

Do you have short hair? I don’t think pH 6 is really beneficial, as conditioners need lower pH (4-4.5) to have the strong cling moment (cationic conditioner + anionic hair). Also conditioner should be applied to the lengths and ends? Not roots?

Allantoin - I don’t think it will do anything in wash off formula.

[Paprik]

Thank you guys!

I was planning on adding Coca-Betaine after to increase viscosity, however firstly I wanted to check if the gum will hydrate properly/check stability.

@ketchito told me once that GHPTC works best with anionic surfactant to create those coacervates.

Soooo, the bottom line -

1. Add Guar into vortex

2. Add Coca-betaine

3. Add anionic (SLSA)

4. heat, preservative etc …

[Paprik]

Hi,

you are using 1:1 ratio // solubiliser (low HLB emulsifier in this case) : water soluble ingredient.

What ratio would you use to solubilise oil in water? 1 : 3? 1 : 5? 1 : 10? .. that would depend on the lipid and the solubiliser, right? Think about it and try to use it in your case.

Polysorbate has high HLB, it would not work in this case. You are using correct ingredient (low HLB emulsifier), you just need to either lower your extract or increase the “solubiliser”.

[Paprik]

I second Mark.

But if you would like to know the reason why it is getting cloudy you would need to provide full formula.

[Paprik]

( I guess you diluted it with water, so) Yes, absolutely.

If there was a preservative in original the product, it was only enough to preserve the original product / 70% solution.

If you add water or other ingredients you dilute the preservative and it no longer will perform “strong” enough to preserve it. = microbial growth.

Hope it makes sense? 🙂

[Paprik]

Hi,

please provide full formula and method. If possible, also a picture so we can see that.

[Paprik]

If you are a manufacture I would say yes. If you are producing at home I would say no.

As Perry said, standard detergent/soapy hot water, rinse off properly (with distilled water preferably) and before you use the equipment spray it with IPA solution (70-80%).

I like to spray it after washing also. [Although I am using a small dishwasher which also dries it for me].

[Paprik]

Amen! As I also read somewhere here, when you ask the trainer they tell you to re-read some text or watch their god dammed video. It was so frustrating to get a proper answer from them. I had Tasmin as a trainer.

The best thing is, as mentioned, to finish the formulas as per their guides and tables, do not make any innovation or try to be “extra”, get the paper and learn on your own.

On the other hand, I think that those Facebook lives they are doing [well, when Belinda was doing them] are quite good as they need to answer your question properly and you can respond immediately. Now, Tasmin is doing them and they are not so great.

[Paprik]

Yes, I can confirm - thinking outside the box is prohibited *eye roll*. You have to go with their guidelines and follow the rules. Even though now, in my lab, I am doing things I wanted to and it is working. This sucks. Definitely.

[Paprik]

Hi Perry,

I thought anionic substances (such as Carbomer or Xanthan Gum) are not compatible with cationic substances?

Wouldn’t the HPMC be better?

Thank you for confirming 🙂

[Paprik]

Yeah, I don’t get Laurie’s point either …

Laurie, be careful, because this nasty ingredient is in 90% of products! Can be even at 70-90% concentrations! It can be deadly if inhaled. Can cause skin irritation if exposed for too long, eye irritation and more.

You should really watch out for Aqua/Water/Eau in INCI list. 🙂

[Paprik]

Do not click on the link, copy the whole link,