[ngarayeva001]

But do you realize that anything can cause that mutation? Radiation can cause mutation that would lead to cancer and bananas, for example, contain isotopes of radioactive potassium. Do you avoid bananas? Same and even more about sun exposure. You have many more chances to get cancer from walking outside on a lovely summer day rather than from using modern cosmetics. 

[ngarayeva001]

What is it?

[ngarayeva001]

MakingCosmetics are particularly difficult. They make up names for ingredients. Their GelMaker PH, is actually Sepimax Zen. GelMaker Silicone, it’s some Dow Corning’s ingredient (forgot which one). But what if you can’t tell by INCI? They have GelMaker powder, there are so many ingredients with that INCI and I have no idea whether it’s lubrizol’s ultrez 20 or Pemulen or something else. Lotioncrafter at least tells you directly it’s Sepimax Zen or Aristoflex.

[ngarayeva001]

So strange. It’s an inci of a ‘normal’ shea butter but they say it’s water dispersible.. 

[ngarayeva001]

Is it Glycereth-8 Shea Butter esters that you are referring to?

[ngarayeva001]

Hi @Gunther, I read this article a long time ago when just started formulating: https://makingskincare.com/how-to-formulate-like-a-pro/

“approximately 25% of the total of the oil-soluble ingredients, subject to a minimum of 3% and a maximum of 7%”

this approach never failed me in o/w emulsion. I wish it was as simple with w/o.

[ngarayeva001]

I don’t know whether French folks with their megacomplex hard to make sauces would agree

[ngarayeva001]

I noticed that Russian aren’t into ‘natural’ stuff yet, so you can find a huge variety of ingredients from Russian and Ukrainian suppliers. I am very much into water in silicone emulsions now. These aren’t easy to make and I must admit I managed to make only two successful prototypes since April (I can’t guarantee these are stable but at least a couple of months of stability so far). So these ingredients aren’t popular in DIY community and not available from repackagers. I am so happy that I can now buy them now that I am ready to pay for shipping. I ordered several silicones with total weight a little over 2kg. Shipment to London was 42 EUR through Ukrainian post. I decided to order it to another country that I was visiting as it was cheaper (30 something), but next time I am ordering to London. I understand 42 is very high but Bulgaria is much closer to Ukraine, so I hope it’s more affordable.

[ngarayeva001]

Yes, the shipping cost is brutal. I am in the UK, so I have to pay for shipping and customs fees when buying ingredients from the US. 
So, if you are in Europe, you can have a look at these suppliers:

https://www.glamourcosmetics.it/gb - they have a lot! You can find a huge variety of rare ingredients there, including water in silicone emulsifiers, makeup ingredients, nice selection of silicones. No focus on natural nonsense, they have everything. They do ship to Bulgaria, although might be pricy. 

https://www.aliacura.de/ - this one is more on the “natural” end but they sell great surfactants. I think it’s the only place in Europe where you can find Iselux (sulfate-free super mild surfactant).

And here is this gem that comes with some issues:  
https://xn—-utbcjbgv0e.com.ua/

It is a Ukrainian store. They have a huge number of rare ingredients and the price is more affordable than the majority of EU and US stores. Here is a problem.. they operate in a very old fashioned “Russian” way. You can not just order online, you have to wait for the email from them after you placed an order. The email comes in Russian and explains the price and shipment options. They don’t speak any English at all. They understood my typing of Russian words using English letters and I managed to place an order. You can pay using PayPal. Then you take a print screen and send to them as proof of payment and they ship your order. It is a legit company, and I got a couple of great silicones from them. I don’t really understand why they operate in this way, but I am sharing this with you because I know that some people in Bulgaria speak Russian, so you might have friends who will help you to order. It’s a pain but they have very interesting ingredients.

You can use the translate function of Google chrome to navigate all these sites.

[ngarayeva001]

Essential oils?

[ngarayeva001]

But careful with this, because conditioner should be slippery and too much of fatty alcohols change the texture and make it draggy as if you apply a body lotion on your hair. I am still looking for that perfect balance, but it seems to me that 5% of Cetearyl alcohol is an absolute maximum.

[ngarayeva001]

Silicones are amazing and almost impossible to replace. I think formulators who don’t use silicones really limit themselves. 
D5 is amazing and is used in makeup and hair care a lot. The restrictions are only related to rinse-off products.

[ngarayeva001]

Here are several observations

Rose Distillate - 61.1%  - Serious challenge to preservation (aka bug food) replace the majority with water
Panthenol - 1% - Too much, it has no proven benefits, reduce to 0.1% 
Allantoin -0.5% - ok
Niacinamide- 1% - ok
Watermelon Extract (powder form) - 1%
Glycerin - 5% - sounds a bit high but it’s a matter of taste
Xanthan Gum- 0.3% 
Sodium Hyaluronic (high Molc) 0.2% - I would remove xanthan, as together with HMW HA it will contribute to a snotty texture

Olivem 1000 - 4%
Glyceral Stearate - 1.2%
Cetearyl Alcohol - 1.2%
Caprylic/CapricTriglyceride- 4%
Watermelon Seed Oil - 3%
Jojoba Oil- 2%
Argan Oil - 2%

Bisabolol- 0.7% - Sounds high. I read it’s effective even at 0.1%
Rose Extract - 0.6%
Green Tea Extract- 0.2%
PISUM SATIVUM PEPTIDE - 2%
Matrixyl Synthe’6( Hydroxypropyl cyclodextrin, palmitoyl tripeptide-38, glycerin, water)- 1.5%
HYDROLYZED LUPINE PROTEIN- 2% - another bug food
SYN-COLL(Palmitoyl Tripeptide-5, Glycerine) - 1.5% - in my experience, it can have a negative impact on viscosity in many systems.
Vegetable Ceramides (Glycerin & Glycosphingolipids)- 2%
Vitamin E - 0.5% - too high, reduce to 0.2% max!
Amticide VAF( Bacillus Ferment & Saccharomyces Ferment Filtrate)- 0.5%
Euxyl PE 9010 (Phenoxyethanol (and) Ethylhexylglycerin) 1% - too weak for the amount of bug food you add. Consider pairing with something else or replacing for a stronger preservative.

Additionally, as it was mentioned above, it’s going to soap badly, so you would be better off replacing that olivem to Arlacel 165 (Glyceryl Stearate/PEG-100 Stearate) and adding some dimethicone.

[ngarayeva001]

2800 sounds more like low shear overhead stirrer, not a homogenizer

[ngarayeva001]

Thank you @Doreen. It’s great to know because I often use aluminum jars, because they are lightweight and reusable. I guess I need to invest in glass.

[ngarayeva001]

This is my personal rule of thumb but if I deal with cetearyl alcohol in particular 3.5% gives same viscosity in several days as 4% right away after cool down. So I always discount 0.5%

[ngarayeva001]

You can use this as a source of inspiration 

https://www.thesoapkitchen.eu/carrier-oils

But whatever you choose make sure it’s not prone to oxidation. Most of these exotic oils have high iodine value.

[ngarayeva001]

It’s such a vast generalization though. Customers want whatever nonsense marketers tell them is cool at the moment. Started from non-comedogenic ending vegan. If you want a product for oily skin, make it with esters and light silicones and call it a day. An average customer is ignorant and uneducated it doesn’t mean formulator should always follow customer’s ignorance.

[ngarayeva001]

@Vnnil, thank you very very much for this information! I know that Cetrimonium Chloride reduces the viscosity of conditioners quite significantly, but I had no idea PG can cause this too.

[ngarayeva001]

@Dtdang, the point is that the “oil-free” claim is nonsense. This is something marketers do but replacing vegetable oils to Isopropyl Myristate and calling it oil-free is deceiving the customer. By the way, if you want to see a “cream” without oil, look at any hair conditioner. You can make a conditioner without a drop of oil, and in fact without silicones either. Water, fatty alcohols, cationic emulsifier. And it will look like a cream and even feel slippery. 

[ngarayeva001]

@MarkBroussard, although I am against safe spaces and all up for 1st amendment (it’s an open club and everyone is free to say what they want), it’s still not good when an expert with 20+ years (as I assume from some of your posts/comments) of experience trolls a hobbyist. You see, it’s extremely discouraging and a person might think that they are not good enough and would be afraid to ask a question again (which I suspect is going on). Let’s share knowledge and encourage others.
Having said that sepiplus 400 is such a  $..%t!

[ngarayeva001]

@Meemcha, I have been working on a conditioner for a while. I had an idea to make it in W/Si format (for a leave-in product) but it wasn’t a very realistic exercise. Currently, I am trying to reverse engineer https://incidecoder.com/products/wella-professionals-invigo-nutri-enrich-mask. In my opinion, silicones add a lot to any conditioner (rinse-off and leave-in), so I always add them. My favourite for conditioners is amodimethicone. D5 is nice as well, but I am trying to be environmentally friendly when it’s possible, so I use D5 for leave-in serums only. Phenyl trimethicone is also great for leave-in hair products. It’s light and adds shine more than others

[ngarayeva001]

You need to account for this effect when you formulate that’s it. Add less fatty acids/alcohols in your formula having in mind that the product will gain final viscosity only after a couple of days.

[ngarayeva001]

It would be much better if you swap those oils to silicones (not 10%, like 3-4)

[ngarayeva001]

Although it could be many things, my first suspect would be SCI, because you use 6% and this surfactant is acting off sometimes in liquid products (it recrystallizes and you mentioned white particles so could be it). As far as I am aware it’s usually added at a low % (like 2-3% max).