[Michelle76]

plantasense was supposed to be a natural alternative to silicone, but it seems that is washed away during the use. I will try with silicones. but how can I add them in the shampoo formula? Can I obtain a clear formula with silicones?

• This reply was modified 12 months ago by  Michelle76.

[Michelle76]

chemicalmatt said:

Certain manual bath bomb presses can be bought with the disc former mold. Check them out. 

thank you 

[Michelle76]

Here the instructions on how to use it. It tends to low the pH of the formulation slowly with the time, then the supplier recommends to neutralise it to pH 7.5 first, then add the other ingredients and adjust the pH of your formulation to 5-5.5 with citric acid. I am using it now and will let you know how it goes
Hope this help.

[Michelle76]

chemicalmatt said:

Usually a little slimy-ness in a conditioning shampoo with PQ10 is a good thing: means you are getting favorable cationic sensorial deposit on dilution. Having said that, you may be facing an order of addition problem or that polyricinoleate builder is the culprit. Always disperse & completely hydrate PQ-10 into the water first, then add the amphoterics immediately afterwards - and you have two there. Anionic surfactant next then any builders. This way you optimize coaceravation of the PQ-10. As for that polyricinoleate builder, switch it out for another builder such as an amide and observe any difference in “slime.”

Thank you for your advice . I did other tests and one of the problems was the order of the ingredients, another problem was the preservative that I have replaced. Now the solution is perfect until the end when I add citric acid to adjust the pH and the viscosity increased considerably.

[Michelle76]

Hi Perry, thank you for your reply. I have used in the formula the following ingredients: Sodium Cocoamphoacetate, Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate, Cocoamydopropyl betaine, herbal extracts, lauryl/Myristyl Polyricinoleate, glycerin, essential oil, citric acid, vitamin E, Caprylhydroxamic acid, glyceryl caprylate. At first, when I dissolve polyquaternium 10 in water it seems fine but then the problem is when I mix it to the other phase. I am wondering if it is not compatible with some of the ingredients.  

[Michelle76]

Pharma said:

That depends on the definition of soap.

Traditional soaps are alkali salts of fatty acids.

thanks

[Michelle76]

I agree with Cafe33. You need a small amount of fragrance 0.1-0.2%. I notice in my experiments some fragrances tend to fade quickly in some formulae. I think it also depends on the quality, some are just too weak. In my understanding you don’t want to add an high quantity of fragrance, they often contain allergens. 

[Michelle76]

jemolian said:

Add the glycerin to the heated water phase would do. 

For fatty alcohols, wait for about 24 to 48 hours to gauge the final viscosity as it will thicken up over some time.  

It worked, thank you .

[Michelle76]

jemolian said:

It might be that you TEGO care 165 isn’t sufficient, or that you have over homogenized the lotion. 

For a basic lotion, you can try something like this:

• TEGO care 165 3%
• Cetearyl alcohol 2 to 3%
• Lipid 5%
• Glycerin 3%
• Preservative as required
• pH adjuster as required

Hi, thank you. Do I have to add the glycerin to the water phase or with the oil and the emulsifier? 

[Michelle76]

Benz3ne said:

You’ll probably want a refatting agent or conditioning agent.
The two go-to’s are glyceryl oleate or polyquaternium-7. I’m sure someone else might give some suggestions.
What % actives do you have and what’s your resulting pH? 

Hi Thank you, the pH is around 5 and total active is 10%. I also added some Benzalkonium chloride to make it antibacterial.

[Michelle76]

Belassi said:

I don’t think you can “use them” on crystalline salts if that is what you mean. I don’t know for sure, but I suspect they get their colours from crystallising in a dyed solution.

Thank you. I have found on internet some procedures using liquid dyes and wondering if it is only a method for homemade coloured salt or there is a similar manufacturing procedure.

[Michelle76]

thank you.

[Michelle76]

Hi I could solubilise it in propandiol at 50degree. concentration 10%. Hope this helps.

[Michelle76]

ketchito said:

Hi Michelle. Quaternary ammonium compounds are not so good against some microorganisms, and that’s why you need higher amounts than with other preservatives, to reach the MIC (minimum inhibitory concentration).

So, the answer is yes, but you need high amounts of quats. It’s always better to mix it with another antimicrobial. 

thank you

[Michelle76]

I am using coco betaine. I have tried to use coco glucoside but the viscosity is too high and it doesn’t work with the pump.

[Michelle76]

I have reduce the salicylic acid to 0.35 from 0.5 so I had to use only 3% zemea and not the PG. then I adjust the pH to 6.5 and it works great . Thank you so much.
I am just not sure if 0.35 salicylic acid is enough to give the soap antibacterial property 

[Michelle76]

thanks, I will try

[Michelle76]

chemicalmatt said:

Prescribed monograph level for Benzalkonium Cl is 0.13%, for Benzethonium Chloride 0.20%, but the latter is not as effective a germicide. Less than 5% of hand sanitizers in the USA use these quats; most use ethanol. As for safety: agree 100% with @letsalcido: these are meant to murder micro-organisms such as SARS CoV-II. Is that not a good thing?

Hi, thank you so much for the information. Would you be able to tell me where I can find Monograph, please? I am not really sure what they are exactly but it is the second time I heard of it. Thanks again

[Michelle76]

Thank you both very much for your advice. Really appreciated 

[Michelle76]

Farrukh said:

You should maintain the pH at least 7
For this you may use TEA

thanks

[Michelle76]

klangridge said:

@Michelle76 Can I ask why you need a neutral pH?

The pH of the skin is around 5.5, and most conditioners have a pH of 3-4 to help conditioning agents bind to the hair. 

You may also find that solubilising a preservative like that won’t have a great effect - if you think about it, the solubiliser is bound to the preservative, so it doesn’t have the same surface area it would if alone, and therefore may have lower activity. Please do challenge testing to make sure it’s sufficient.

Also be careful with which essential oils you use - I understand you’re trying to make a natural product, but lots of essential oils come with sensitising effects which could irritate the scalp.

thank you for your message, really helpful and appreciated. I would like to keep the pH neutral because it is a shampoo for dogs and I read their skin has a more neutral pH. Conditioning agent won’t work at a neutral pH?
Th explanation you gave me for the preservative makes perfect sense and I haven’t think about this. What natural preservative I can use? I could not find any natural preservative working at neutral pH.
After your advice I have checked on essential oils and they actually seem worst then fragrances.
Thank you so much for your advice.

[Michelle76]

Hi, thank you for your messages, the formula is the following:
sodium Lauroyl methyl isethionate 12%
coco glucoside 5%
betaine 3%
NaCl 3%
citric acid 0.3%
Essential oils 0.5%
Sodium Bicarbonate to adjust pH
preservative 1% (caprylhhydroxamic acid/glyceryl caprylate/glycerin)

It supposed to be a natural product.
I couldn’t find any natural water soluble preservative that works at neutral pH.

[Michelle76]

what percentage silicones are used in the formula?

[Michelle76]

thank you