MattTheChemist
Forum Replies Created
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@pattsi Yes, that is correct about the “R” name…
The client doesn’t want to avoid preservatives. At all. The product was just presented to me and I saw how ridiculous it was and I explained that to her.
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@Perry
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@Pharma Right? The “claim” is that they are “biologically active” and highly bioavailable, especially those that are acetylated or have fatty acid moieties added, and are of low molecular weight. Of course, marketing fuels most of this, as @Perry mentioned.
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It would vary per peptide-complex blend. You would need to ask for the compositional breakdown from the manufacturer.
I do find brands tend to mislead in marketing when it comes to peptides.
For instance, Matrixyl 3000 (INCI: Glycerin, Water, Butylene Glycol, Carbomer, Polysorbate 20, Palmitoyl Tripeptide-1, Palmitoyl Tetrapeptide-7)
The actual amount of the 2 peptides in the complex: 0.01% and 0.005%.
The manufacturer recommends you use 4% of the blend, which means the actual amount of peptide in the finished product would be 0.0004% and 0.0002%.
Yet when a manufacturer says we use “4% of Matrixyl 3000” consumers tend to think it means 4% of the actual peptide. Peptides are not found at that high of levels in products.
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@Rockstargirl the only available data on HPR comes directly from Grant, the manufacturer. I don’t think any independent, peer-reviewed studies exist.
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@Pharma great question!
I was as confused as you are. When I read the Veegum data, the suggested usage rate was much higher than found in this formula. My guess is that it was added as a stabilizer, but even then the client says the current formula has some stability issues in extreme temps.
Also, I have the benchmark sample and it is unusually thin, as is. She wants it thicker/creamier, without playing with the lipid level. I ended up using Polyhydroxystearic Acid with success! She doesn’t mind this INCI
Thank you for your insight as always!
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@ariepfadli thank you!
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@Pharma thank you
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@Abdullah I believe that happens in-vivo with the triglycerides in the follicle sebum, but the question is if topically applied triglycerides (plant oils) get broken down into the FFA’s when applied.
@jemolian great article by Michelle! She seems to agree that there is little evidence to prove this.
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@Pharma thank you for saying this!
I see far too many people claiming benefits of plant lipids due to the FA content, but we know that very few FA’s are free within the oil, and most are bound in triglyceride form.
For instance, there are data showing the benefit of Linoleic Acid for the skin barrier so the assumption is that an oil high in LA content provides the same benefit…some even saying that microbial lipase enzymes will cleave the ester bond and free the fatty acids when the oil is applied topically.
I cannot find ANY evidence of this in the literature. What are your thoughts here?
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Such great information! Thank you so much, everyone! Everything makes sense. It is so fascinating to get a clearer understanding of this side of the industry. I appreciate you all!
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@zetein thank you for that. I came upon similar findings as well.
@perry I also used Lonza and switched it out for Geogard ECT and all was fine.
I really appreciate this group!
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Good to know! Thank you, @Perry !
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@Abdullah I don’t believe there is one solid choice here. This category has more flexibility and it all depends on the sensory attributes of the lipid that you desire, playtime, oxidative stability if using plant lipids, volatility, etc.
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@chemicalmatt haha Hi, Matt!
Thank you for the input! Saves me some wasted time. @Graillotion I do not know that since it is my first time working with the material! But good to know. No one wants giggly and gross!
I’ll be sure to start at 0.5% and see how things turn out. Thank you! -
@helenhelen @”Dr Catherine Pratt”
The derm has one of the largest egos and personalities out there. He can basically sell anything with his name attached. I’m just not comfortable creating products in that category, for a variety of reasons. Thankfully, his interest in the product faded over time. That way I didn’t have to constantly be the asshole denying him the project. Pun intended.
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A prominent dermatologist I formulate for is big on anal bleaching and even does micro-botox to “smooth the anus wrinkles”. He wanted a take-home topical that can elongate clinical bleaching efficacy, as well as smooth/plump the wrinkles. All I could think about was a) who is looking at the anus this close up, and b) who the fu*k cares! He hinted at having adult performers as patients, and that these treatments were big in Holywood overall. I respectfully declined the project.
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@MarkBroussard thank you, Mark! All good points. This one in particular is on the actual packaging. They sell it without any secondary outer components, and the cap has a shrink wrap on it.
The “feedback” I got from professionals using it is all positive, and no one has mentioned long term stability issues (that I know of). I was sent a few bottles (before I took a look at the deck) a few months ago, and the emulsion has not broken. Which is why my red flag got raised based on that IL.
If what you said is possible, how long would that type of emulsion be stable for without? I have definitely used HA as a polymer to emulsify TINY amounts of lipids, but I would never guessed that network would be strong enough to handle excess lipids, let alone that high of Zinc.
I appreciate your insight!
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@Pattsi The first one.
It seems it’s a stock private label formula, used by a few brands. Thanks for that search effort.
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@Bill_Toge @RedCoast @PhilGeis thank you. It seems I have open a can of worms with the professionals that use this brand/product. It really irks me when I see these brands not playing by the rules, when the rest of us do. I have no regrets exposing this. Thanks, again!
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@abierose great information, thank you! the N350 was one I was looking at.
@MarkBroussard I have some of the Floraesters on hand so I will give that a go! Thank you!
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@Pharma thank you as always! I had a feeling this was the case. Of course, clients not wanting silicones makes the job slightly more challenging. I will test some of those substitutes!
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Take a look at GranLux AOX from Paradigm. I’ve been playing around with it and it’s performing well. High heat tolerance.
