ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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@Danger Starting with the fact that you could greatly reduce the Glycerin which could impair your foam without giving you any real benefit, I’d also suggest to also reduce your fragrance (it’s usually present at half that concentration), and also cut by half PEG-40 HCO. Also, DMDM Hydantoin alone would only protect againts bacteria, so I’d advise to add a paraben or IPBC to make your system more broad spectrum.
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@filiz My guess is that since some free amines that are present in amides (like your Liromid Mipa) can reduce the potency of Isothiazolinones, it’s common to add a formaldehyde releaser like DMM hydantoin to hinder free amines.
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@MattTheChemist Considering that your product has a pH low enough for your DHA to work, I honestly don’t know how Benzyl alcohl and Dehydroacetic Acid could preserve a formula so full of nutrients. Did you check microbial growth in your product? If your previous batches were ok, this problematic one could have been contamined from outside. Also, check for some signs of phase separation and pH drift (if that happened, Benzyl alcohol might have stayed in the oil phase and since you used NaOH, pH could have drifted to a more basic value, inactivating DHA and leaving your water phase vulnerable).
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@olga You definitely need to try elastomeric silicones. I used this one in the past, but there are many others from different suppliers (Dow, Grant, Wacker, etc.): https://www.essence-plus.com/essence-plus689/program_download/good/20161011160929872.pdf
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@ankita Benzophenone-4 is the most common and cheapest one for these type of products. You can also use Tinogard TT.
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@Susie You have to keep in mind first that unlike polymers, fats from vegetable oils tend to unevenly deposit on hair, giving poor coverage, letting big areas exposed to heat from irons. Also, at the temperature that the flat iron works (usually close to 200C), unsaturated fats in vegetable oils might decompose, forming among other products, polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (which are very nasty chemicals, being the reason why vegetable oils are poor choices for deep frying from the health point of view).
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@Abdullah As @Perry mentioned, PQ’s and cationic guars won’t do much to stabilize emulsions, and if you have anionic ingredients (like stearates), they might make it worse.
Xanthan gum and HEC on the other hand, help increase water phase viscosity in the emulsion, which increases stability. But hydrophobically modified polymers like Carbopol ETD 2020 and the like are better on this, since they interact both in the water and oil phase, increasing stability even more than water soluble gums.
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@MapX There’s a very useful article about how to formulate toothpastes using Carbopol: https://www.lubrizol.com/-/media/Lubrizol/Life-Sciences/Documents/Literature/Bulletin-24—Formulating-Toothpaste-Using-Carbopol.pdf
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@Herbnerd Sodium monofluorophosphate (SMFP) can undergo hydrolisis during storage, and if you hace Calcium chloride in your formula (abrassive), free fluoride during washing will react with calcium rather than binding to enamel. This also happens with Sodium fluoride.
There are to ways to reduce this scenario (and usually brands use this to together): increase the amount of fluoride source (to have aprox. 1450 ppm of fluoride), and use a buffer so the pH doesn’t drift in the case you’re using SMFP.
Also, I believe the 1000 ppm you mentioned are not the amount of SMFP, but of fluoride ions.
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@Jennyk Can you make one sample without the Spearmint Essential Oil? I don’t see a solubilizer in your formula (Glycerin can work as a coupling agent, but is not as potent as a real solubilizer). Also, did you check the solubility of your Organic Match Green Tea Powder? how do you add it?
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@Jakethedog I believe Silverson LR2 will be enough for the task. But also check if there are no other interactions that would be making the sedimentation, or perhaps the order of addition.
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@Stacy88 Yes, I was going to suggest the wax, which would form a film reducing water loss. Maybe you can try one without it and start increasing to 1%, or switching to a different type of solid like Glycol distearate.
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@h__w No worries. The viscosity thing is only in case the viscosity is very high, with the product like a gel, which could influence. But I believe that’s not the case.
Try to make one sample then mixing the Xanthan gum in a better way, and before the surfactants. This is a common procedure for gums and natural/natural derived polymers in general.
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@h__w Xanthan gum can be tricky to work with sometimes. Did you add Xanthan gum as the first ingredient directly to the water while vigurously mixing, keeping this mixing for at least 15-20 min? I’d then add the Coco-glucoside, Betaine and DHDH H in that order. Also, what’s your final viscosity?
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@nishil113 I want to point out first that I’d be better not to use Cocamide DEA along with Bronopol, since ingredients which have free secondary amines (like Cocamide DEA) shouldn’t be mixed with nitrosating agents (like Bronopol). Also, even though cationic surfactants can be added in small amounts to anionic solutions (phase diagram has a zone in which this mixture doesn’t form precipitates), check during stability if there is no sign of turbidity. And lastly, you have a too high amount of Vitamin E for a rinse-off product.
So, regarding your question, it’d be more helpdul to understand what do you mean for harder. Does it make your scalp itch? If that’s the case, you might be sensitive to either SLES or CAPB. I’d try first replacing part of the SLES for a milder surfactant (like a carboxylate).
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@ankita I’d first ask if the color fades after 15 days exposed to sunlight or UV light? If so, you need to add a UV filter. If that’s not the case, check for the pH and if your dye is acidic or basic (in case it’s basic, it might be reacting with SLES, so you need to change to an acidic dye).
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@caro I can’t see clearly, but the surface doesn’t look so smooth, but a bit grainy. I’m not familiar with silica microspheres, so I’d suggest to make a test without them (maybe the level is too high). I’d also do another test increasing the amount of waxes 50%.
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@Farrukh You can check this formula in Ulprospector: https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/Cleaners/Detail/940/191997/Enzymatic-Stain-Removal-Spray-Formulation-ES-08-FR-11i. What you need is an enzymatic product for that purpose, especially one that contains a protease (mainly) and lipase. On the other hand, you could also have a stain remover based on H2O2 or sodium hypochlorite, which would also work.
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@1501 Preservatives specifically active against yeats and mold are parabens, but if you’re not OK with parabens, organic acids (as long as your final pH is lower than 6.0, and the lower the better), and Iodopropynyl Butyl Carbamate. PHMB has also activity against these microorganisms, but there are some concerns, especially when used in sprayable products. The idea is to mix a good antibacterial preservative with one of these, so you have broad spectrum…or you can use a broad spectrum preservative as well.
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@sg_ Foam is opaque by a physical phenomena. For foam being produced, air is trapped by a thin film which comprises a mixture of surfactants, co-surfactants, waxy materials (in the case of shaving creams), etc. If you have just few bubbles of any type of surfactant solution, you’ll see it more or less transparent. But the more bubbles come together, the tighter the packing between them and the harder the light to pass through unaltered, so I don’t believe you’d be able to have transparent lather.
Nevertheless, shaving foams are more solid and wither than foams from other surfactant solutions, since they have waxy materials (like stearic acid, myristic acid, lauric acid, beeswax) to increase creaminess and durability of those foams. You could try to make a surfactant solution with regular synthetic anionics (like SLES, or sulfonates) and make the film more rigid by using co-surfactants instead of waxes (like CAPB, CDEA, amine oxides, etc.). This foam won’t be transparent, but it won’t be so white either.
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Hi @yesunyi. I haven’t worked with hair products with H2O2, but I have formulated bleaching products with 5% H2O2. Thermal stability is critical, that’s why I wouldn’t skip this type of test, at least at 40C. I believe your final product will be sold in a flexible and opaque PE bottle, right? You need to put a flexible bottle inside the oven because it’ll eventually swell. You could check your sample first every hour, and then every day, just to be sure how the stability is going and the bottle won’t break. The more H2O2 you have in your formula, the less stable your product will be, and that’s why I use few stabilizers, keep a low pH and avoid some ingredients that can impair stability.
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@bayo1214 Did you check pH drift in your product? Usually when you neutralize LABSA with NaOH, there’s an equilibrium formed rather than a complete neutralization, and unless you’re high on pH (over 10), the pH will go down affectin dyes (that are usually pH sensitive). This is for the color issue.
Regarding separation, maybe you’re too high on LABSA, or actually, too low on pH so that your sulfonate is converting again into its acid form (LABSA), which is not as soluble in water as the salt.
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Hi @Ola. I honestly haven’t used gelatin in any hair care product, but I don’t believe it’d do much than increase the viscosity (forming hydrocolloids)…nevertheless, I don’t know how it might impact on stability.
Being not a fan of hydrolyzed proteins for hair products, I’m aware that the quaternized types have more affinity for hair fibers, so I’d use them instead (I remember Gluadin WQT P being a quaternized version of hydrolyzed wheat protein).
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@Zara Yes, you can use Lamesoft PO65 and still get a clear formula. There’s a shampoo formula with Lamesoft PO65 by BASF on Ulprospector, that you can use as reference: https://www.ulprospector.com/es/la/PersonalCare/Detail/1960/113833/Clear-NPA-Shampoo-Formulation-US-00797-030?doc=1027988&st=20.
As @Belassi mentioned, not everyone like the effect of Lamesoft PO65 on hair, so you have to test is to see if it feels ok for you, and especially at which dose it gives the best result.
I’d advise to use PQ-10 as well (consider that it’s derived from Cellulose, so it’s on natural origin), of Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride, for both film forming and as aid for oil deposition.