[ketchito]

drjayseesunish said:

drjayseesunish said:ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

PhilGeis said:

Don’t see a preservative

@PhilGeis sorry..forget to mention 
Phenoxyethanol is preservative used here.

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

@ketchito thanks a lot ketchito.
Here I want to understand if we switch to TEA for neutralize labsa but how can we get the properties of NAOH if using TEA.
Can we use a combination of NAOH and TEA?
Does propylene glycol produce same effect as of SXS? Please reply. 

@drjayseesunish When you neutralize with TEA, the resulting surfactant is more water soluble and also more degreasing than if you neutralize with NaOH. You could neutralize with both, but I’d recommend to firt use only TEA to see if your issue was resolved. Unfortunately, PPG is not as powerful as SXS, and it can also deprive your foam if used at high levels. I also see a high % of an alcohol ethoxylate. May I assume you’re formulating a concentrated liquid detergent (to be diluted)? Liquid enzymes would have been a good addition (but then you’d need to add stabilizers and redice the pH). 

[ketchito]

@drjayseesunish That’s a high amount of LABSA. I never got further than 8% without switching neutralizers (from NaOH to TEA) or adding a hydrotrope (like SXS). You could either reduce the amount of LABSA, switch to TEA (as neutralizer) or add something lime Sodium xylene sulfonate. 

[ketchito]

@CzarXavier If your issue is that your conditioner gets very thick, as @Abdullah mentioned, you could reduce the fatty alcohols. You can also reduce Behentrimonium chloride a bit, as long as it doesn’t impact your stability (perhaps drop from 1.0%  to 0.8%).

[ketchito]

@drjayseesunish Did you do a knockout test (with and without the ingredient) to make sure it is the polymer settling down? As @Pharma mentioned, your surfactant system might be sensitive to cold environment, and that’s what you see first as cloudiness and then as a preciputate at the bottom. For instance, if you have a sulfonate, that one tends to produce cloudiness and precipitate in some systems, especially in the presence of salt (you don’t need to add it yourself, ingredients such as CAPB carry high levels of salt). I’d be better if you mention what else is in your formula.

[ketchito]

https://www.ulprospector.com/es/na/PersonalCare/Detail/30/129121/Gelatini

[ketchito]

Tania_Mallic said:

I need help with cheek stain formula nobody is answering my question 

@Tania_Mallic I saw your original post, but you need to provide more information about your formula, in order to get some advice ????

[ketchito]

@Pharma As always, thank you for the clear and detailed explanation. It was very helpful!

[ketchito]

@drsimranjit_lv If you have a mist, as long as you’re using water soluble ingredients or a solubilizer for the ingredients that are not so soluble, you don’t need to add a gum.

[ketchito]

@saeedulfat The active preservative is Benzoic acid, but since it’s not too water soluble, Sodium benzoate (the salt) is prefered, with the premise that you need to lower the pH to have Benzoic acid. At high pH, you’ll have Sodium benzoate instead. At a pH of 5.5, you’ll have a mixture of both, so the lower the pH, the more Benzoic acid you’ll have.

[ketchito]

@mix5 Sepigel 305 is a great Robin (Chris O’Donnel), a good Sancho (Panza), a nice Melania (yikes!)….but let the heroes (Michael Keaton/Christian Bale) save the city and kiss the girl (Kim Bassinger, all the time). That means, use a monomeric emulsifier(s) at regular amount, and add Sepigel 305 at low amount (if needed, to boost stability and thickness).

[ketchito]

@niecie2k Be careful about the amount of Lactic acid. Now that you removed Mg hydroxide (it neutralized most of the Lactic acid), you have more Lactic acid available that could be sensitizing to skin under repetitive use. Not saying that you should put Mg hydroxide back, but to reduce Lactic acid, so you have the minimum required to get the desired pH.

[ketchito]

@Pharma In the past, I’ve worked on a stain remover based on hydrogen peroxide. To stabilized (because the product became unstable over time, making bottles to swell), we used a close relative of BHT and it worked. I believe it worked preventing (or scavenging) free radicals. Might this be applied in the case of this BP product? 

[ketchito]

@Research1 That I remember, Sodium citrate is used to make acidic buffers. I’d be better to know what else you have in your formula, but you could try adding Sodium bicarbonate (low amounts).

[ketchito]

I agree with @Pharma. You can also try increasing pH of your product, add an antioxidant and -as you mentioned-, increase viscosity of your product.

[ketchito]

@kellymila The Behentrimonium in your BTMS could potentially react with one of your anionics, forming an insolue compound that deposits on hair and weighs it down. Could you try one sample wothout BTMS? 

[ketchito]

@nmalti You need a good viscosity to suspend your pearlizer, else, it’ll end up in the bottom. Alternatively, you could consider adding some suspending agent (like a carbomer).

[ketchito]

@Shubh123 You nees to fine tune, since all waxes have different melting points. Which wax did you reduce? 

[ketchito]

evchem2 said:

I would say the only possible concern is maybe micro count, sometimes the food spec is higher since the products  generally have shorter shelf life

Thank you @evchem2. You’re right, the food material I wanted to use has a bit more loose micro spec ranges, so we’ll test both materials (cosmetic and food grade) just to be sure there’s no micro risk.

[ketchito]

Only one? What about the miss to mention collagen crosslinking (glycation), to start with? ????

[ketchito]

@Littlemisscurious Check always what big brands do. For a conditioner, there’s no need to use cationic polymers when you have cationic surfactants, so you can remove your PQ-10. Also, what you need to protect hair is lubrication and hydrophobicity, so Glycerin and Panthenol are not needed (your hair will balance its water content with or without them). Essential oils can be too irritating for a leave on, specially at that level. Also, silicons and esters are better conditioners and don’t weigth down hair as natural oils and butters do.

[ketchito]

@saeedulfat Keep in mind tat HEC is a cellulose based material, hence, a food source for microbes. If you didn’t have that issue with a formula based only on Sodium benzoate (not broad spectrum and dependent on pH and the type of surfactants you’re using), it might be as you describe, because you didn’t have HEC before. It doesn’t mean you didn’t have microbes presence before, but you didn’t have visual signs of their presence.

[ketchito]

Graillotion said:

I and others, use ingredients from bulk supplements on a regular basis.  Some would contend, that food grade is a better grade…. As in… Something that goes in you, might be held to a higher standard than something that can just go on you.   

Aloha.

Aloha @Graillotion! My thoughts precisely. Just wanted to make sure I’m not screwing up by overlooking any law, especially in aproduct that will sit on a supermarket shelf, waiting to be scrutinized by competitors and health authorities  . 

[ketchito]

Thank you @MarkBroussard! That’s a relief.

[ketchito]

@Fekher i really love Cocamide DEA, and yes, it works well in the system you describe. If you want to try something new, a nice replacemet for Cocamide DEA is PEG-4 rapeseedamide. You can find it from different suppliers, like Kao or Clariant. It comes in liquid form and acts the same way as CDEA. If you want extra mildness, PEG-80 sorbitan laurate is a nice addition (J&J has been used for several years). Just as a nice addition. Good luck!

[ketchito]

Fekher said:

@Abdullah so if I use phenoxyethanol it will be fine?
@ketchito so if my system contains CAPB, PQ10, DEA COCOAMIDE , COCO GLUCOSIDE do you think that is safe as baby shampoo?

  

@Fekher Just out of too much caution, I wouldn’t use Cocamide DEA in baby shampoos. I recommend you to check baby shampoos from big brands, to see how they formulate their products. Keep in mind that one of the important things is the tear free property of the product, and for that highly ethoxylated surfactants are more recommended.