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Forum Replies Created
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Sodium benzoate and Potassium sorbate have some synergy (that’s why it’s common to see then together), although it not a broad spectrum system (they are both weak against gram negative bacteria, which is your main concern in cosmetic). If you were to use only one of those, use Sodium benzoate, keeping your pH low.
All the guys that made recommendations in this post are very well known in the industry, with a lot of experience and knowledge. Their opinion is not based on habits but on solid evidence. Keep in mind that most recalled products passed all the tests you mentioned, and still failed. Those tests were all done under ideal contiditions, which are different than real life conditions. Very feq companies can afford to conduct in use micro testing, so again, please take their advice. Safety is the most important thing, and we’re responsible for that.
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When you say that your original formula passed the stability tests, what tests did you do and for how long? Centrifugue aloneis not such a hard condition (many unstable emulsions can pass the centrifugue and the separate during the accelerated stability).
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I agree with Phil. Formulators do use this information to build formulas. The application part comes from patents, as Phil mentioned. Check those patents as reference (I recall a recent one from P&G for an anti-dandruff shampoo using Piroctone Olamine).
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The fisrt thing you need to do is rrduce swelling from surfactants. SLES, SLS and AOS tend to swell the fibre and let the dyes leach. Addition of CAPB and other amphoterics will reduce this (I assumed you’re talking about liquid detergents, but maybe I’m wrong). You can also add PVP or similar polymers which help you reduce dye transfer (not leaching but transfer to another cloth). A UV filter will help you with color fading due to UV radiation.
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Since anti-dandruff agents are delivered by shampoos, you need them to somehow deposit. Coacervation is the main mechanism that allow anti-dandruff actives to deposit from shampoos (the ones that I know of, even Piroctone olamine). I believe though there’s more info on this for ZPT than for the other ones, both because of its particular performance, and because of P&G’s research.
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That formula doesn’t look like a good example. Along with the anti-dandruff active, you need solid detergency (that’s when SLES and SLS play very well), among other things. Nevertheless, why do you think a coacervate won’t be formed in that formula? SLMI has a bit of more charge density than SLES, so it would interact at least similarly with Guar HPTC. The type of ZPT matters for coacervation, but that is not shown.
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Do you mean basic? In theory all anionic surfactants that start with sodium or potassium are basic salts. I think you should focus more on the stability and performance of the surfactant at your working pH.
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No worries. You can try with a 1:4 dilution (one part of product in 4 parts of water). Mix and see if the solution becomes cloudy. Overtime, these cloudiness should turn into a precipitate at the bottom. You can do the same with a commercial shampoo, to see how much precipitate is formed upon dilution (the more the better).
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Sorry, did I get it right? Where you making water based emulsions (with dimethicone as part of your formula), and were not using preservatives when you found the black spots? And you were giving those samoles away? ????
Well, now that you’re considering preserving, keep in mind that traditional systems work. You can even find products for very reactive skin (luke eczema) using preservstives (like La Roche and the like), so they could be a reference.
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If you want the foam itself to be stiffer, then check at shaving cream formulas…there’s an specific combo they use to make it that way. Or perhaps I’m getting your question wrong.
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Not an expert here, but you could try searching Cosing. A quick search shows me only Lithium chloride, used in oral care products: https://ec.europa.eu/growth/tools-databases/cosing/. May I ask why do you need to use it?
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Hi!
I know this message is for Perry, but maybe I can help a little ????. You could try adding Sodium Cocoyl Glutamate, it helps me a lot with that type of problems.
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Many companies use a mixture of fatty alcohols and Hydrogenated Castor Oil (like Cutina HR Flakes). Perhaps you can try that.
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Maybe you could try using only one of those thickeners, and get the final viscosity by using CAPB (if you are using an anionic surfactant as well) plus some salt? Liquid soaps are usually very simple formulas.
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Gums are usually added at the start and before surfactants, so they have time and available water to hydrate.
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Sodium Cocoyl Apple Amino Acids is used as mild surfactant. In order to do that, you need it to be above its pKa, so you don’t have the acid but the free anion. That’s when you’ll have the most cleansing and foaming properties.
In the case of preservatives, if you remove parabens and formaldehyde donors, you’re removing the safest and most efficient preservatives available for cosmetics. If you still wanna do it, there are still some options to be used above a pH of 5 (isothiazolinones and phenoxyethanol are some examples).
Sodium cocoamphoacetate is an amphoteric surfactant. At the isoelectric point (not necessarily 7), it is a neutral molecule, having both positive and negative charges balanced. This is known as a zwitterion. The isoelectric point occurs at a specific pH. Below this value, the surfactant will behave as a cationic, and above this value, it will behave as an anionic.
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Dimethicone has been used in shampoos by many brands (like P&G) for decades. It’s a bit less hydrophillic than Dimethiconol and requires some suspension capacity from your formula.
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No need to apoligize ????. I believe you’re in the right place to get advice for your particular issue. As a general rule, to give a more precise recommendation (and one that can actually help you), you need to provide more information about the formula/product and in a clear way. People usually post their formulas, some even with percentages. This help us understand what interactions are going on within your product, if the product is stable, if something might be interfering with your preservative system, etc. Without that info, it’s hard to give the right advice.
Please don’t be discouraged. You already started, and luckily you’ll find the solution within this great forum ????.
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You need to strenghten the interface you form around air. This can be done using different ingredients, like water soluble polymers (with or without hydrophobic modification), by adding different co-surfactants, etc. But to know what can work in your system, we need to know what’s in your formula.
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BRB 1018 is at 60% active, so 3% of the ingredient can still be a bit low. Try increasing the level or adding some dimethicone fluid. You could also do a coacervation test to see if your system produces a required amount of coacervate.
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If you read application requirements for technical positions in P&G, UL, L’oreal, etc., they are almost exclusively for PhD’s (I know them by heart). If you then read papers published in the few important journal we have in cosmetics, they’re either from scientists from big companies or academia. So the distinction is clear: cosmetic chemists/scientists generate knowledge and formulations by applying more advanced understanding and having access to also more advanced equipment, while cosmetic formulators use (not all the time, but seldomly) that knowledge to build formulas. They are both valid in the sense that they are both useful to making money and a career, it just depends on which type of rol you want to develop.
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I believe the issue with MIC values are that they are mostly from suppliers. For me, suppliers info is not a good source of info (their main goal is to sell). Even if you compare MIC of same compound from different suppliers, you’ll see there’s difference. When it comes to real worl (bypassing challenge tests whith have very limited utility), in-use tests are usually done by recovering hundreds-thousands of commercial product that consumers used under normal conditions, and then micro testing them. This is usually done only by large companies because it’s very expensive and require a large number of people involved. That is why P&G and others stuck to their preservative system for long, not because they are old fashioned (trust me, they tested everything), but because only they can gather data that other companies can’t to validate their real efficacy. Cheers!
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Are you using an anionic surfactant? If you’re using CAPB in your formula, to have any salt response you need to build a mixed-micelle system. For that, you need and antagonist to your CAPB (every Batman needs a Joker, not the best analogy though). Your could use some Sodium C12-14 olefin sulfonate. Then, when you add your salt, free ions will help create a more structured packing. Cocamide DEA will definitely boost this effect.
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Just for clarification, Polyglycerin-10 si different than polyquaternium-10.
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@Hpmangukiya Sorry if I sounded disrespectful, It wasn’t my intention. It was just out of pure curiosity since I was also testing ChatGPT, and got very incorrect answers to technical questions. My point was that there were some missconceptions in your answer, and that made me think about ChatGPT, I apologize for that.