Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Phenonip P4 vs. Germall Plus

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  • Phenonip P4 vs. Germall Plus

    Posted by Camel on July 4, 2023 at 4:48 pm

    Which would be the “better” choice between the two, if only one could be chosen? I know the answer is not that simple, but I only formulate products at home for my personal use—mostly shampoo, conditioner, and lotion. I currently have both on hand, but I am not sure which one to continue purchasing. I would be combining them with Ethylhexylglycerin and EDTA.

    For reference:

    Phenonip P4 (Phenoxyethanol, Methylparaben, Ethylparaben, Propylparaben, Butylparaben)

    Germall Plus (Diazolidinyl Urea, Iodopropynyl Butylcarbamate)

    Any insight would be very much appreciated; thank you!

    Hpmangukiya replied 10 months, 4 weeks ago 8 Members · 14 Replies
  • 14 Replies
  • Microformulation

    Member
    July 5, 2023 at 8:07 am

    While economics certainly come into play, sadly there is not one size fits all preservative. Your preservative system is Formulation dependent in many aspects. Restricting it based on procurement/price issues may cause you to compromise regarding safety in many cases.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    July 5, 2023 at 8:14 am

    Functional, both could work but prefer Germall + in rinse-off products.

    • This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  PhilGeis.
    • This reply was modified 11 months, 2 weeks ago by  PhilGeis.
  • Camel

    Member
    July 5, 2023 at 11:30 am

    @Microformulation @PhilGeis Would it be beneficial to use both preservatives in a product or is that not recommended?

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      July 5, 2023 at 12:23 pm

      No - and please heed the comment of Microformulation.

  • Microformulation

    Member
    July 5, 2023 at 12:02 pm

    Honestly, you are looking for a simplistic answer for an issue that you really need to study more broadly. Again, preservation is hardly a simple matter of adding the right preservative, mixing, and forgetting. There are multiple issues you need to consider. A Preservative System is very much Formulation Dependent. There are other additions you should consider such as chelants, glycols, etc.

    I would suggest doing some reading on Preservation from a reputable learning source. As most Professional Chemists can attest, we have to remain diligent and continue to learn about new options as well.

    • Eliza

      Member
      July 11, 2023 at 10:07 am

      You’re a genius

  • Hpmangukiya

    Member
    July 19, 2023 at 2:57 am

    Both Phenonip P4 and Germall Plus are effective preservatives that can be used in cosmetics. However, there are some key differences between the two preservatives that may make one a better choice than the other for your specific formulation.

    Phenonip P4 is a mixture of parabens, while Germall Plus is a mixture of diazolidinyl urea and iodopropynyl butylcarbamate. Parabens are a type of synthetic preservative that have been used in cosmetics for many years. They are effective against a wide range of bacteria and fungi, and they are relatively inexpensive. However, there has been some concern about the safety of parabens, and some studies have suggested that they may be linked to health problems such as breast cancer.

    Diazolidinyl urea and iodopropynyl butylcarbamate are a type of formaldehyde releaser preservative. Formaldehyde releaser preservatives are not as effective against bacteria and fungi as parabens, but they are considered to be safer. They are also less likely to cause allergic reactions.

    Ultimately, the best preservative for your specific formulation will depend on the ingredients in the product, the desired shelf life, and the budget. If you are concerned about the safety of parabens, then Germall Plus may be a better choice for you. However, if you are looking for a preservative that is effective against a wide range of bacteria and fungi, then Phenonip P4 may be a better choice.

    It is important to note that both Phenonip P4 and Germall Plus are regulated by the FDA and are considered to be safe for use in cosmetics. However, it is always best to consult with a cosmetic chemist to determine the best preservative for your specific formulation.

    I hope this helps!

    • ketchito

      Member
      July 19, 2023 at 6:23 am

      Just out of curiosity, did you get this info from ChatGPT or similar? I’m asking because it lacks some important points (like the influence of the type of product on each preservative system’s efficacy) and some others are unsupported (the type of parabens approved for cosmetic use were over and over proved to be safe).

      • Hpmangukiya

        Member
        July 20, 2023 at 12:07 am

        let me tell you that I have 4 years of experience in pharmaceuticals industry as a R&D person and since last two year I am working as R&D chemist in cosmetic industry. I have my own R&D lab. If you have any problem out of the chat GPT you can ask also and I think Chat GPT is also important for collect some information some I also used that for just knowledge and yes I must tell you that it’s help me.

        • Abdullah

          Member
          July 20, 2023 at 2:08 am

          I think paraben is milder and formaldehyde releaser is more powerful for bacteria. If that is what you also mean.

        • ketchito

          Member
          July 20, 2023 at 8:08 am

          @Hpmangukiya Sorry if I sounded disrespectful, It wasn’t my intention. It was just out of pure curiosity since I was also testing ChatGPT, and got very incorrect answers to technical questions. My point was that there were some missconceptions in your answer, and that made me think about ChatGPT, I apologize for that.

          • Hpmangukiya

            Member
            July 20, 2023 at 11:45 pm

            It’s ok. There is nothing wrong. you just ask me for your clarification. still if you have any problem then you may ask. i will try my best for you.

    • PhilGeis

      Member
      July 20, 2023 at 10:56 am

      A few clarifications. IPBC is not a formaldehyde realaser and cosmetic preservatives are under FDA’s authority but are not regulated per se. FDA does not establish preservatives as “safe”.

      Both Germall plus and Phenonip are effective against the range of bacteria and fungi that place cosmetics at risk. In my experience prefer Germall + in shampoos for solubility and Phenonip in creams/lotions.

      the go to preservative system of the 70’s and 80’s was Germall/parabens.

  • Loretta

    Member
    July 19, 2023 at 7:58 am

    I still believe in science rather than marketing. I don’t believe in these so called “preservative” most finished products we tested from our customers their products contained Phenonip and trying to claim natural. SMH

    Stick with the recommended preservatives, preservatives

    Too much convo issues with other products mentioned. With the upcoming regulations, a lot of companies will have to be upfront, enough said

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