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Home Cosmetic Science Talk General Really, really stupid company

  • Really, really stupid company

    Posted by Margaret on March 12, 2023 at 3:18 pm

    I’m writing AGAIN about this styooopid company, ‘Carina Organics’. It is their PURE & NATURAL DAILY LIGHT CONDITIONER

    They had a recall in 2009 by Health Canada for contamination of their PURE & NATURAL DAILY LIGHT CONDITIONER. AND, it’s no surprise, since they do NOT use any sort of preservative. AND they have NOT bothered to correct their formula.

    Here’s the ingredient list from 2009 when the recall happened.

    July 2009:

    Aqua, Cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, Pinus divaricata (pine) extract, Pinus banksiana (pine) extract, Chamomilla recutita (matricaria) flower extract, Blechnum spicant (fern) leaf extract, Urtica dioca (nettle) leaf extract, Taraxacum officinale (dandelion) leaf extract, Trifolium pretense (clover) flower extract, Acetic Acid, Olea europaea (olive) fruit oil, Curcurbita pepo (pumpkin) seed oil, Beeswax, Lathyrus odoratus (sweet pea) flower extract.

    Here’s their CURRENT ingredient list, showing they don’t give a shit about safety. ARGH!

    Filtered Aqua, Cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, Cetyl Alcohol (fatty alcohol from Coconut), Olea europaea (olive) fruit oil, Linum usitatissimum (linseed) oil, Cucurbita pepo (pumpkin) seed oil, Helianthus annuus (sunflower) seed oil, Persea gratissima (avocado) oil, Pinus elliottii (pine) extract, Pinus banksiana (pine) extract, Matricaria chamomilla (chamomile) flower extract, Urtica dioca (nettle) leaf extract, Taraxacum officinale (dandelion) leaf extract, Trifolium pratense (clover) flower extract, Citrus tangerina (tangerine) oil, Pyrus malus (green apple) extract, Ananas sativus (pineapple) extract, Magnesium Chloride (Magnesium Oil), Cyamopsis tetragonoloba (guar/cluster bean) gum.

    This is the LOI for the BABY LOTION.

    Notice that the ingredients are very similar to their crappy conditioner, including NO PRESERVATIVE(s). Again, this is to be smeared on a BABY!!!

    Ingredients: Filtered Aqua, Cocos nucifera (coconut) oil, Cetyl Alcohol (fatty alcohol from Coconut), Olea europaea (olive) fruit oil, Cucurbita pepo (pumpkin) seed oil, Pinus elliottii (pine) extract, Pinus banksiana (pine) extract, Matricaria chamomilla (chamomile) flower extract, Urtica dioca (nettle) leaf extract, Taraxacum officinale (dandelion) leaf extract, Trifolium pratense (clover) flower extract, Acetic Acid (Apple Cider Vinegar), Magnesium Chloride (Magnesium Oil), Cyamopsis tetragonoloba (guar/cluster bean) gum.

    I wrote ‘Carina Organics’ & asked what preservative they use in this baby lotion. Here is their response, please be sure you are SITTING DOWN, NOT EATING OR DRINKING ANYTHING when you read their response. You have been warned 😁:

    Thank you for reaching out! Happy to hear you enjoy our baby lotion. Our products have a 3 year shelf life due to our unique use of pine extract. This ingredient (made in-house with the sap from local pine trees) offers both natural antimicrobial and antibacterial properties. I hope this helps. Should you have any other questions, please let us know!

    Please write any comments you wish, since I will be posting this atrocity in a ‘Zero Waste’ feces book group I belong to. Sadly, MANY of the members of the group are the type who think natural & organic is the best, and I figure I might as well make myself UNpopular by giving them this excellent example of garbage being sold for use on BABIES(!!!) plus the recalled hair conditioner info.

    Margaret replied 3 days, 10 hours ago 8 Members · 18 Replies
  • 18 Replies
  • Graillotion

    Member
    March 12, 2023 at 4:05 pm

    Regarding the baby lotion….I am always amazed…at what a robust emulsifier cetyl alcohol is…stand alone. πŸ˜‚ πŸ˜‹ Don’t even start….with all the potential allergens!

    Apparently their MODUS OPERANDI is: Don’t list anything without a pretty name. πŸ™‚

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  Graillotion.
  • KMRCSMiami

    Member
    March 12, 2023 at 9:17 pm

    This is super dangerous and unfortunately this trend isn’t going anywhere. Its gotten so bad that based on my knowledge of natural products, that I refuse to buy things if they are unpreserved or sold in specific stores.

    The sad thing is this won’t end well. I am 100% sure that they have received complaints from customers or noticed stability issues in their products, however due to a lack of knowledge think its part of the course. That growth? Its the pine tree πŸ˜‚

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 3 days ago by  KMRCSMiami.
  • mikethair

    Member
    March 13, 2023 at 12:44 am

    Must agree….this is amazingly stupid.

    But my question is. If they are producing under GMP Certificated conditions, why aren’t these formulations and supporting Challenge Tests not picked up during GMP audits? In our case, it certainly would be.

    My only assumption, therefore, is that this company not producing under GMP Certificated conditions.

    • Graillotion

      Member
      March 13, 2023 at 1:50 am

      Why did you conclude they are GMP? Is that mandatory in Canada?

      • mikethair

        Member
        March 14, 2023 at 3:33 am

        We have exported to many countries and most customers are requesting our GMP data in order to conform with local regulations. My assumption is that it is mandatory.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    March 13, 2023 at 4:03 am

    Right - this is garbage waiting for a bug to drop in. Suppose it’s feasible it might have met the nominal criteria of 51 but no GMP’s will save that mess and in-use contamination is certain.

    Granted this is obvious but a lot of the Ecocert and other “clean” systems I’ve seen here are not much better.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    March 14, 2023 at 7:16 am

    @mikethair

    What “GMP data” are you sharing?

    • mikethair

      Member
      March 14, 2023 at 5:33 pm

      When you ask “What β€œGMP data” are you sharing?” then it’s everything.

      First, ee need to notify the product before it goes onto the market with National Pharmaceutical Regulatory Agency (NPRA). They of course will check the ingredients list and preservative regime.

      Next, we have “surprise visits” by the local office of NPRA. Here it’s a case of a phone call saying they are outside and want access. These are short, very focused visits. And all of our records and Batch Manufacturing Records (BMRs) must be available. We can never know what they will focus on.

      And finally, we have formal inspections every two (2) years. Here a team from the NPRA Head Office will spend one or two days going through everything.

      Across all of these compliance checks, the issues identified with this “stupid company” would be identified.

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  • Pharma

    Member
    March 14, 2023 at 2:57 pm

    @Margaret Next time your kids (assuming you have kids) are sick, let them cough into the product (to ensure contamination with the right bug), and sue the company for causing the illness πŸ˜‰ . You’re not only getting tuition fees for your kids sorted out but also safe other kids from really becoming sick. πŸ˜‡

    • Margaret

      Member
      March 14, 2023 at 3:15 pm

      Nope. I did not want to add to the poopulation. We have a cat.

      I will be giving a letter to the manager of the store that stocks this crap, and I’ll include the Health Canada recalls & point out to the manager that this moronic company is STILL, NOT using a REAL preservative. The company’s pine sap they use to preserve this sorry excuse of a conditioner (and also the baby lotion) is NOT “cutting it”.

      I had already pointed this fact out to the store manager a few years ago, and she said something along the lines of “we haven’t had any complaints”.

  • ozgirl

    Member
    March 14, 2023 at 4:09 pm

    Let’s hope the Pine Extract is adulterated with parabens or other real preservatives like some of these other natural preservatives. πŸ˜€

    • Graillotion

      Member
      March 14, 2023 at 4:15 pm

      Pretty safe to assume. πŸ™‚ (Or…there were plenty of extracts to hide the real preservative in.)

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    March 15, 2023 at 5:09 am

    @mikethair

    What is “everything” GMP data? Finished product and raw material testing? monitoring data? water testing? batch sheets? yield? training records?

    • This reply was modified 1 week ago by  PhilGeis.
    • mikethair

      Member
      March 15, 2023 at 5:18 am

      In response to your question “What is β€œeverything” GMP data? Finished product and raw material
      testing? monitoring data? water testing? batch sheets? yield? training
      records?”

      The answer is yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes to each.

  • PhilGeis

    Member
    March 15, 2023 at 5:09 pm

    Thanks. Do they ever ask questions re. the data?

    • mikethair

      Member
      March 15, 2023 at 5:16 pm

      And in response to your question “Do they ever ask questions re. the data?

      Yes, absolutely. During the audit, there will be numerous verbal questions. And these will be followed up with more detailed written questions.

  • BetaOneChem

    Member
    March 18, 2023 at 6:34 am

    Wow, This is sickk on all levels, i can imagine your reaction when they sent in their replyπŸ˜†. Oh. 3 years Shelf life because it contains Pine Extract . What a Joke!!!

    • Margaret

      Member
      March 19, 2023 at 10:44 am

      Their claim of this crappy formula lasting 3 years almost made my hair go frizzy.

      I am nervous about using a simple 2 year old lotion I made in which I use Germall preservative, never mind some crap these people make with pine sap as a preservative (AND it’s loaded with plant extracts too, apparently), for christ’s sake.