ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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The more ethoxylated your surfactant is, the better compatibility with skin it has (and less water hardness sensitivity). The 2 mole sodium laureth sulfate is the most common in the industry.
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No worries. Maybe that’s also the issue. Your DM6 dimethicone seems to be of very low molecular wieght. I use for hair, mostly a 1000 cSt dimethicone, so maybe switch to something similar.
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Sorry I missed this. Could you give more detalles about the manufacturing conditions (speeds, time, etc.)? This can influence the final behavior of the emulsion.
Just in case, CTAC is Cetrimonium chloride.
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As @Perry mentioned, the product that gives more conditioning of those two, is the conditioner. I’d increase the amount of dimethicone (try with 3%). I’d also remove Cationic guar from the conditioner (you have a lot of cationic charge between both fórmulas, so consider that frizz can come from both anionic as well as for cationic charge buildup, plus, it absorbs water). Also, removing Glycerin is also a good practice in rinse-off products.
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Since surfactants compete with binding sites, you could either change the electric nature of fabrics proteins (increasing pH would reduce the amount of positive binding sites for anionics), or increasing the ionic strenght of your solution (adding increasing amounts of salt, so it desorbs anionics, but salt’s counterions would bind instead, so you need to rinse after with deionized water).
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If you want glide and don’t use silicones, avoid adding butters to your formula, since they’d increase friction due to their nature (liquid oils on the other hand, will decrease friction). I just read a very nice paper comparing mechanical properties on hair delivered by different types of vegetable “fats” from cosmetic emulsions, so that might also help.
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Ethanol at 5% might be too low for a Body Splash (you want some level of evaporation and fragrance blooming). Also, Potassium sorbate as your only preservative won’t protect much. I’d reduce the Aloe Vera to claim levels if you want to keep it (something like 0.01 %), since it increases risk of contamination and doesn’t do much actually.
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If your BTMS 50 has a 50% of cationic surfactant, then 4% es OK. To give a more conditioning structure, you’d need to increase your Cetearyl alcohol a bit more (increase it gradually to 3, 4 and 5%, and check how it feels with every increase). Plantasense LD is a nice ingredient….if you want it cheaper, Isoamyl cocoate could also work. You can always use a small amount of Mineral oil (if you don’t want to use silicones).
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If the turbid solution settles over time in the bottom (precipitation), that might be the coacervate that has formed upon dilution.
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Thank you @MarkBroussard
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Thank you @MarkBroussard for your comments, I really appreciate them.
My client, for one project, actually built some data set from different trials where he modified the ammount of each ingredient ofnthe formula, to see where there is an optimal formulation, using Minitab. Nevertheless, the product was very simple and I don’t see that working in shampoos (where there are different and complex interactions) or even emulsions (since the products were made by a technician, manufacture is also another variable not taken into account). What’s your take on this?
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@Perry44 I totally agree. One major flaw of AI is their dependence on data and how reliable that is, since it can’t discriminate for instance between good data and bad data. AI also doesn’t have access (yet) to many paid journals which is a major limitation.
@sagestudent What amazes me is how easy it is to convince someone in power (who very often don’t have technical training) about some new technology, and how eager they are to replace their technical people. Btw, the tool my client is using is Minitab (https://www.minitab.com/en-us/solutions/analytics/statistical-analysis-predictive-analytics/).
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Try with mineral oil…but you’ll need a larger amount than usual (around 8%). Check what level gives you the glide you want, and fix the formula to be stable at that leve of MO.
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That soft layer that conditioners leave, that glide is due to emollients, which are usually silicones, esters or hydrocarbons. You have none of them (and very little cationic surfactant, which also help to have a smoother surface). I believe the oils you have in your formula are vegetable oils, which don’t feel as nice on hair (although, you don’t have much of those either).
You also have a huge amount of Aloe Vera, which doesn’t really do much, but increasing your risk of contamination.
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What you do to prevent setting is to keep mixing till the bulk starts getting some consistency. That’s when you pour the product into molds. Tapioca can be replaced by any other starch, while bicarbonate can be replaced for example, with magnesium hydroxide.
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I second @jemolian on the use of 165 plus a fatty alcohol, to get a nice lamellar phase for your product.
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Tapioca starch and bakong soda do not dissolve in oils and waxes when melted. What happens is that in a small batch, melting and cooling take very little time, and you won’t see your powders settling, which is more evident in a larger batch. Plus, heating surface in your larger kettle might concentrate and transfer more heat from the bottom, and that could account for the burning.
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Also, be careful when working with magnesium chloride since it’s hygroscopic and you might have issues in plant. You could use KCl instead.
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Younhave two amioacid-based surfactants and one non ionic. Adding salt might not produce a viscosity increase, unless at your working pH, one behaves as an anionic and the other as a zwitterionic, since the addition of salt works to reduce repulsion between head groups of surfactants, so micelles keep on growing or changing conformation. You could also perform a pH screening to see where you have a peak in viscosity (if you want to keep both aminoacid-based surfactants).
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Glyceryl stearate is an ester (non ionic), so there shouldn’t be an issue with EDTA. Now, what could be happening is that if you use dissodium EDTA, the final pH is lower and most of your Stearic acid is in the acid form (when neutralized, Stearic acid works as an emulsifier). That’s why you have a thicker product without EDTA. Just a guess.
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Once neutralized, TEA-dodecylbenzene sulfonate has better solubility in water than Na-dodecylbenzene sulfonate, so it’s less prone to salting out.
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By not new, I mean a bit earlier in time. I actually found a patent from 1993 with the same technology (https://patents.google.com/patent/KR950005976A/en). I even found a magazine called “Vegetarian Times” where in the 1985 issue, they mentioned that some soap makers used leftover restaurant cooking oil for making soap (https://books.google.com.pe/books?id=ZQgAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA30&dq=soap+from+cooking+oil&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsrLCM1vaCAxVrGLkGHWyeBIE4ChDoAXoECAQQAg#v=onepage&q=soap%20from%20cooking%20oil&f=false). And if we go back in time even further, there’s a 1943 book called The Belgian Chemical Industry where in Germany and due to WWII, there was a shortage of fats so they made soap only using waste oil (https://www.google.com.pe/books/edition/The_Belgian_Chemical_Industry/4SJNRXLSg78C?hl=es&gbpv=1&dq=soap+from+waste+oil&pg=PA9&printsec=frontcover).
@PhilGeis mentioned the quality issue of the reused oil, and that’s where it get complicated, since temperature, time, type of oil (soy, canola, etc.) can for different levels of byproducts. The most concerning group are the polyclyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-021-14755-z). The risk of exposure to these compounds by washing with a soap containing PAH’s is of course very low, but is as low as the exposure to parabens in similar conditions, so these products would fit into a circular economy scheme well (although, a different story is the release of these compounds from a soap, to the waters). My point was that these compounds have a less safe safety profile compared to parabens, for instance, to it’s weird to run away from some (parabens) but neglect the others in the “green” arena.
patents.google.com
KR950005976A - 폐유를 이용한 비누의 제조방법 - Google Patents
KR950005976A - 폐유를 이용한 비누의 제조방법 - Google Patents
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Not only using food waste to make different types of cleaning stuff is actually not New, but it’s funny that guys from the natural realm complain about (very safe) parabens, but don’t mind having very toxic aromatic compounds from cooking oil waste in their soaps ????
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Not working for Olaplex (although I wish, hehe)….but those products were extensively tested. They even posted their safety studies because of these complains (https://olaplex.com/pages/testing-results). Unfortanately, hair and scalp experiment many changes or conditions, not associated with topical cosmetics, but rather to physiological or environmental factors. You coud visit a trichologist so you find out what’s the reason of your hair breakage.
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Glyceryl oleate is an ester with a long carbon chain which accounts for its use as a refattening agent.
Sodium cocoate on the other hand, is a detergent, a carboxylate with a proper carbon chain lenght. So, two different molecules with a different purpose.
Sodium cocoate and CAPB can actually make a good combo. What are the issues you’re having?