ketchito
Forum Replies Created
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Hi! We need to know what else is in your formula to properly assist you. You don’t need to write percentages, but at least list your inredients.
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I agree @Perry44 . Just reading the limitations Just make you wonder how they got to those conclusions. Waiting for the study in humans ????
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I was actually very disappointed on the study, or at least that they published it on their website being so preliminar (I recall now the UV filters endocrine disruptors study, so at the end, I’m not surprised at all!).
I agree, it doesn’t answer what it’s supposed to answer, and if you only read it on the surface (which media and regular consumers might do -if ever-), you’ll have the impression not only that both cleansers do cause hair loss, but that some botanical extracts are also part of the problem.
By the way, I still have nightmares with some of those cytotoxic studies results ????
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Unfortunately, no. Hydroxypropyl starch phosphate has a polar group (phosphate), which gives the molecule surace active properties. That’s why is not only a stabilizer/rheology modifier, but has some emulsifying properties.
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Sorry for not being so clear. Guar HPTC is a conditioning agent with some thickening propertirs…but mostly conditioning. That’s why it’s commonly present in shampoos. Now, for a shampoo that has Guar HPTC, you could get a bit of extra thickening, if you lower the pH.
Hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose is not a conditioning agent, but a very eficiente thickening agent.
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Few things to correct: thoxylation decreases viscosity of the surfactant in solution, not the opposite.
SLES (3EO) is actually less irritating than SLES (2EO), which is less irritating than SLES (1EO) and so on.
It’s SLES (2EO) the anionic most used im dishwashers (after LABS), while SLES (3EO and higher) is more prefered in baby shampoos.
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I believe it’s divalent ions the ones that help carrageenan molecules to bridge between each other, so better use Calcium chloride.
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Guar hydroxypropyltrimonium chloride is a different molecule than Hydroxypropylmethyl cellulose, and are used for different purposes (athough the first one gives some viscosity as well, especially in low pH surfactant-based formulas).
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The more ethoxylated your surfactant is, the better compatibility with skin it has (and less water hardness sensitivity). The 2 mole sodium laureth sulfate is the most common in the industry.
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No worries. Maybe that’s also the issue. Your DM6 dimethicone seems to be of very low molecular wieght. I use for hair, mostly a 1000 cSt dimethicone, so maybe switch to something similar.
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Sorry I missed this. Could you give more detalles about the manufacturing conditions (speeds, time, etc.)? This can influence the final behavior of the emulsion.
Just in case, CTAC is Cetrimonium chloride.
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As @Perry mentioned, the product that gives more conditioning of those two, is the conditioner. I’d increase the amount of dimethicone (try with 3%). I’d also remove Cationic guar from the conditioner (you have a lot of cationic charge between both fórmulas, so consider that frizz can come from both anionic as well as for cationic charge buildup, plus, it absorbs water). Also, removing Glycerin is also a good practice in rinse-off products.
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Since surfactants compete with binding sites, you could either change the electric nature of fabrics proteins (increasing pH would reduce the amount of positive binding sites for anionics), or increasing the ionic strenght of your solution (adding increasing amounts of salt, so it desorbs anionics, but salt’s counterions would bind instead, so you need to rinse after with deionized water).
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If you want glide and don’t use silicones, avoid adding butters to your formula, since they’d increase friction due to their nature (liquid oils on the other hand, will decrease friction). I just read a very nice paper comparing mechanical properties on hair delivered by different types of vegetable “fats” from cosmetic emulsions, so that might also help.
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Ethanol at 5% might be too low for a Body Splash (you want some level of evaporation and fragrance blooming). Also, Potassium sorbate as your only preservative won’t protect much. I’d reduce the Aloe Vera to claim levels if you want to keep it (something like 0.01 %), since it increases risk of contamination and doesn’t do much actually.
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If your BTMS 50 has a 50% of cationic surfactant, then 4% es OK. To give a more conditioning structure, you’d need to increase your Cetearyl alcohol a bit more (increase it gradually to 3, 4 and 5%, and check how it feels with every increase). Plantasense LD is a nice ingredient….if you want it cheaper, Isoamyl cocoate could also work. You can always use a small amount of Mineral oil (if you don’t want to use silicones).
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If the turbid solution settles over time in the bottom (precipitation), that might be the coacervate that has formed upon dilution.
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Hi! It means your system can’t hold that much NaCl. You either need to reduce it, or reduce the level of LABSA (you can compensate with SLES). Just to be sure, make a sample neutralized with TEA without NaCl and put it in the fridge; if after 2-3 days it doesn’t get turbid, it’s an issue with the electrolytes. From there, start reducing the amount of LABSA. You’ll notice that the less LABSA you use, the more NaCl you’ll be able to add without turbidity…….or, you could just add an hydrotrope (Sodium xylene sulfonate, for instance).
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Sorry, I think I was following the original thread. If you have a floor cleaner, turbidity due to salting out wouldn’t be much of an issue since the level is very low, so yeah, it wouldn’t matter if you neutralize with either NaOH or TEA. Now, be sure you’ve completely neutralize your system or else, you might experience a pH drop.
And by the way, a hydrotrope is just a molecule that increases the solubility of another one. The most common is Sodium xylene sulfonate.
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<div>@oldman20 To fully neutralize a system that has a decent leve of LABS, you’ll need roughly 1/4 of that amount as NaOH (50% w/w), so it’s not a little amount. Now, as I mentioned, when using TEA as neutralizer, the resultan salt is more soluble than when using NaOH.</div>
I agree with @Hamlaoui. If you still want to use only NaOH, then a hydrotrope is recommended (if your LABS leve is higher than 5%).
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In the case of an anionic surfactant such as SLES, having Mg2+ as counterion increases its detergency, compared to Na+.
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Once neutralized, TEA-dodecylbenzene sulfonate has better solubility in water than Na-dodecylbenzene sulfonate, so it’s less prone to salting out.
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By not new, I mean a bit earlier in time. I actually found a patent from 1993 with the same technology (https://patents.google.com/patent/KR950005976A/en). I even found a magazine called “Vegetarian Times” where in the 1985 issue, they mentioned that some soap makers used leftover restaurant cooking oil for making soap (https://books.google.com.pe/books?id=ZQgAAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA30&dq=soap+from+cooking+oil&hl=es&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjsrLCM1vaCAxVrGLkGHWyeBIE4ChDoAXoECAQQAg#v=onepage&q=soap%20from%20cooking%20oil&f=false). And if we go back in time even further, there’s a 1943 book called The Belgian Chemical Industry where in Germany and due to WWII, there was a shortage of fats so they made soap only using waste oil (https://www.google.com.pe/books/edition/The_Belgian_Chemical_Industry/4SJNRXLSg78C?hl=es&gbpv=1&dq=soap+from+waste+oil&pg=PA9&printsec=frontcover).
@PhilGeis mentioned the quality issue of the reused oil, and that’s where it get complicated, since temperature, time, type of oil (soy, canola, etc.) can for different levels of byproducts. The most concerning group are the polyclyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11356-021-14755-z). The risk of exposure to these compounds by washing with a soap containing PAH’s is of course very low, but is as low as the exposure to parabens in similar conditions, so these products would fit into a circular economy scheme well (although, a different story is the release of these compounds from a soap, to the waters). My point was that these compounds have a less safe safety profile compared to parabens, for instance, to it’s weird to run away from some (parabens) but neglect the others in the “green” arena.
patents.google.com
KR950005976A - 폐유를 이용한 비누의 제조방법 - Google Patents
KR950005976A - 폐유를 이용한 비누의 제조방법 - Google Patents
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Not only using food waste to make different types of cleaning stuff is actually not New, but it’s funny that guys from the natural realm complain about (very safe) parabens, but don’t mind having very toxic aromatic compounds from cooking oil waste in their soaps ????
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Not working for Olaplex (although I wish, hehe)….but those products were extensively tested. They even posted their safety studies because of these complains (https://olaplex.com/pages/testing-results). Unfortanately, hair and scalp experiment many changes or conditions, not associated with topical cosmetics, but rather to physiological or environmental factors. You coud visit a trichologist so you find out what’s the reason of your hair breakage.