[helenhelen]

Pharma said:

AFAIK it is anti-microbial and would suffice at high enough % though such high levels might not be feasible. Hence, I wouldn’t use it as sole preservative but rather in blends to boost other preservatives, for example such which don’t have 100% efficacy on their own.

@Pharma Do you have any favourites that you like to use pentylene glycol with? I saw you mention in another thread that you like to use glyceryl caprylate, pentylene glycol and magnolia officinalis bark extract (also sold as MultiMEG)… which I tried but it completely broke my emulsion (I think even pentylene glycol alone does this when it’s added to the cooldown phase instead of the heated water phase).

[helenhelen]

Pattsi said:

Penetration Enhancement

Levulinic Acid
The performance of 3 transdermal buprenorphine patch formulations, combined with 8% (w/w) Levulinic Acid, lauryl
alcohol, or Tween 80, was tested upon 1.5 cm x 1.5 cm of abdominal skin from male Sprague-Dawley rats (number not
specified).25 Response surface methodology was used to evaluate the interactive effects of various skin permeation and
adhesion properties. The skin flux, and hence penetration potential of buprenorphine, was highest in the presence of
Levulinic Acid. The authors postulated that the chemical structure of Levulinic Acid has the potential to disrupt or fluidize
lipids in the stratum corneum, hence leading to an increased partitioning and absorption of buprenorphine.

https://www.cir-safety.org/sites/default/files/Levulinic.pdf  

Thank you @Pattsi

[helenhelen]

Stain the skin with something like food dye or cherry juice (wash as much residue off), and see if the pills are that colour?

[helenhelen]

Could be aeration in your sample? Looks very bubbly.

[helenhelen]

Aqua (Water); Herbal Extract Mixture from: Rosa Centifolia Flower, Chamomilla Recutita
Flower, Calendula Officinalis Flower, Arctium Lappa, (Burdock) Root, Althaea Officinalis
(Marshmallow) Root, Camellia Sinensis (Green Tea) Leaf; Aleuritis Moucana Seed (Kukui) Oil ; Rosa Aff. Rubigenose (Rosa Mosqueta) Seed Oil; Simmondsia Chinensis (Jojoba) Seed Oil; Aloe Barbadensis Leaf Extract; Lecithin; Squalane; Hydrolyzed Oats; Sea Whip Extract; Algea Extract, Lentinus Edode Extract; Ganoderma Lucidum (Reishi) Extract; Enteromorpha Conpressa (Marine Seaweed) Extract; Cesalpina Spinosa (Tara Tree) Gum; Sclerocarya Birrea (Marula) Seed Oil; Punica Granatum (Pomegranate) Seed Oil; Curcubita Pepo (Pumpkin) Seed Extract; Rice Bran Extract; Olea Europae (Olive) Leaf Extract; Glycrrhiza Glabra (Licorice) Root Extract; Glycine Soya (Soybean) Protein; Alcohol (from Grains); Xanthan Gum; Chondrus Crispus (Carrageen) Extract; Soy (Soybean) Protein; Tremella Fuciformus (Silver Ear Mushroom) Extract; Citrullus Lanatus (Watermelon) Extract; Helichrysum Stoechas Extract; Hydrolyzed Curcubita Pepo (Pumpkin) Extract; Iris Florentina Root Extract; Garcinia Mangostana Fruit Extract; Punica Granatum (Pomegranate) Fruit Extract; Silvercitrate, Citric Acid; Ascorbic Acid (Vitamin C); Lactic Acid; Coenzyme CoQ10; Propolis Cera; Parfum* (fragrance); Santalum Spicatum (Sandalwood Australia) Oil; Chamomilla Recutita Flower Oil, Tocopherol (Vitamin E); Propolis Cera; Citrus Aurantium (Neroli) Oil; Jasminium Grandiflorum Flower Oil; Rosa Centifolia Flower Oil; Rosa Damascene Flower Oil; Boswellia Carteri (Frankincense, Olibanum) Oil; Commiphora Myrrh Oil; Cananga Odorata (Ylang ) Flower Oil;
Nardostachys Jatamansi (Narde) Root Oil; Vanilla Planifolia Fruit Oil; Pogostemon Cablin
(Patchouli) Oil; Lavendula Officinalis (Lavender) Oil; Pelargonium Graveolens (Rose
Geranium) Oil; Citrus Aurantium var.amara (Petitgrain) Oil; Terpinen-4-ol (from Tea Tree Oil); *Phenylethanol (from Rose Oil); *Linalool (from Lavender Oil); *Isoeugenol (from Ylang Oil).

That’s from https://www.sonjafrey.com/product/jk7-rejuvenating-serum-lotion

There’s also the ingredients of the Golden Face Oil here: https://theexpater.com/2018/04/21/better-than-botox-the-new-anti-aging-facial-oil-set-for-a-cult-following/

[helenhelen]

I was quite pleased with the lids I made for my beakers. Until recently, I was just letting up 15- 20% of the water evaporate off like a chump. Now it’s down to about 7% loss which I add in as extra water at the beginning. I weigh the final cream after cooling down and knowing how much the beaker weighs, I can tell if I added in the right amount or not (and adjust again for next time if needed).

The lid is one of these: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Munchkin-Miracle-Lids-Styles-Multicoloured/dp/B07QKDP8F6 and is silicone and flexible so it’s easy to cut into, to twist/bend to put on, lift up etc. In the pic, it’s on top of a 250ml beaker. I can just lift it without taking it off completely when I want to check the temperature.

[helenhelen]

Benz3ne said:

Could it be that the combination of ethanol and glycerin aids penetration of glycerin? Or that xanthan forms a film and retains glycerin, so re-rinsing is just wetting and allowing that film to form again, or ‘rehydrate’ the humectant?

Yes it must be something like that. I should probably try a very basic gel with just glycerin and xanthan to see if I get the same result.

[helenhelen]

Thank you for your comments @chemicalmatt, @Perry and @Benz3ne.

@Perry for me, “moisturised” means skin that doesn’t look and feel like parchment paper, and the comfort lasts through a wash instead of being rinsed off. The sanitiser made my hands look and feel like a normal person’s hands. I just don’t seem to have any natural moisture or oil going to my hands and feet!

[helenhelen]

This was a new place that started around this summer. It sounded quite interesting - https://cosmetic-testing.com/. Article here https://cosmeticsbusiness.com/news/article_page/The_first_online_shop_dedicated_to_testing_cosmetic_products_is_here/168906.

Example prices here: https://cosmetic-testing.com/product/stability-and-compatibility-test/

[helenhelen]

ketchito said:

@helenhelen You probably experienced an indirect effect of carbomers (which deposit on skin creating a film that holds water molecules), and some other polymers added (like PEG-12 dimethicone). I don’t think small molecules like Glycerin would give a perceivable effect, considering they penetrate the skin very fast and that the level used in these type of products is very low. Actually, I’d be cautious about using these type of humectants in hand sanitizers, since the are proved to reduce the potency of alcohol. Even the FDA issued a recommendation about it and some other actives usually found in hand sanitizers (like Aloe Vera).

Hi @ketchito Thanks for the info. Yes I have experienced the effect of carbomers and sodium polyacrylate holding water on the skin lately. Much more so than with xanthan. So I was surprised that the ingredients list didn’t include any gel formers other than xanthan. I actually just saw the warnings about glycerin reducing the sanitising effect of alcohol the other day after I posted this thread.. even very small amounts of glycerin. Made me wonder if there are a lot of ineffective hand sanitisers out there!

[helenhelen]

@jemolian Thanks for that!

[helenhelen]

@jemolian I’d love to know what you think Propanediol feels like compared to pentylene glycol. I use both glycerin and pentylene glycol at the moment in a cream but I’ve always wondered if propanediol would add much in terms of moisturisation or skin feel.

[helenhelen]

jemolian said:

My guess would be the mix of xanthan gum with the glycerin? 

When it is was serious Covid times earlier on i had made a 60% IPA gel with Sepimax Zen and Methyl Gluceth-20 (just 0.5%). It’s not very drying compared to liquid no-gel types, and the guys at work use it multiple times a day, every time they are back from their smoke break. 

Thanks @jemolian, you’re probably right. I wonder how much glycerin is in the hand sanitiser I used to get the effect I experienced.

[helenhelen]

Do a Google search for the INCI names of the ingredients you are looking for.. most times you will find a repackager who sells it (often it’s given a slightly different name to the manufacturer’s)… the ones Graillotion mentioned supply a good selection in the US, but there are often more obscure or foreign sites you might find some ingredients if you really, really want them… e.g. Trulux in Australia, and smaller sellers in UK, France, Germany, Italy and Poland. I’m forever receiving securely-packed packages of white powder from all over the world 

There will be some ingredients that you can only get large quantities (e.g. 15kg or 25kg) but more often than not, you will find a decent substitute that is more readily available in smaller quantities.

[helenhelen]

I personally find benzalkonium chloride incredibly drying, albeit the products that contain it are drying. It feels fine on application but is eventually turns my skin into a sore, cracked mess. I’ve used alcohol-based hand sanitisers that don’t strip at all even when used repeatedly… I avoid BKC unless it is in a cleaning product and I am wearing rubber gloves.

[helenhelen]

Cosphaderm X34 is nicer than generic “Xanthan, transparent” but it is still prone to that gluey/stretchy consistency and adds to soaping. The main difference I find is that it doesn’t impart a smell like standard xanthan. It also disperses more easily but I would still predisperse it in glycerin.

Cosphaderm X-Soft has the same claims as Keltrol CG Soft - less stringiness. I find Cosphaderm has a waxier afterfeel than Cosphaderm X34 though… I find it quite uncomfortable.

I would guess Keltrol, Cosphaderm and Jungbunzlauer all have very similar products/grades and that there isn’t much difference between the brands when you are comparing the equivalent products. For example, Jungbunzlauer XG FNCSP PC sounds like it will behave like Cosphaderm X-Soft. I haven’t tried them all though… so I can’t say for sure if they are identical.

BTW a 50:50 mix of xanthan and sclerotium (e.g. Amigum) will reduce soaping and stretchiness considerably.

I have also tried Rheozan SH (succinoglycan) which claims to be nicer than xanthan. I found it maybe softer feeling on the skin but it needs more of it for the same viscosity as xanthan, and it’s still stretchy and gluey. In the end I stopped using it as I found it had a strange effect of feeling slimey on the skin when washing.

[helenhelen]

@Cst4Ms4Tmps4 Yes, I’ve been DIY since this year, but the crux of the formulation I’m working on is actually from a chemist I originally paid to develop something. It’s the best of both worlds - the decades of experience and know-how from a cosmetic chemist, and then the ignorant DIY dabbling without paying a chemist for every time I want to tweak the formulation or try some new wonder ingredient I just read about. After all these iterations, I have barely strayed from the original formulation, just very tiny tweaks and additions/subtractions, but all the trial and error has made a difference overall.

I’m afraid I have also spent a lot of money on ingredients that are now collecting dust. But it’s all a learning experience! If you didn’t try it, you wouldn’t know!

And yes, the UK winter dry air is very unforgiving!

[helenhelen]

@Cst4Ms4Tmps4

Cst4Ms4Tmps4 said:

@helenhelen

OMFAG! I missed your comment! I had not been using this site for some time.

 OMG my questions were from November 2019 - the world was literally a different place back then!! Thanks so much for your answers - they are very interesting and useful.

Cst4Ms4Tmps4 said:

I do not follow what cosmetics gurus do. I already had my fair share of being a mindless sheeple. Justified mindlessness as I was starting out so I must not recreate the wheel. First copy what others do and then modify/improve from there. This is the reason why I made a very good product suited for my skin and weather conditions. My friends are using the same thing as I use, and they said they no commercial ones is as good as mine. Not because they are my friends they lick my backside. It is the power of DIY and countless tests. I live in the tropics and most people here are ‘oily’, lots of substances used and recommended in temperate countries are too heavy or greasy for us. Skin will “sweat” and shine prematurely even if the weather is cool. (What is solid in a temperature climate is actually liquid in a tropical climate due to temperate difference. Coupled with very high relative humidity. Thus, lots of oily stuff are marvellous over there, horrible over here)

That’s a great mindset. I also believe in that. I’m currently on iteration #130 or thereabouts of one single body cream - that’s not an exaggeration. I’m in the opposite climate to you.. I’ve been working on a product for drier and dehydrated skin. Like you, people have said it works better than any commercial products. But I was never happy with the texture, smell etc.. but am getting very close now to what I had in mind.

[helenhelen]

GMCY can have a negative effect on viscosity and stability.

[helenhelen]

jemolian said:

Thanks for the confirmation @helenhelen. I’ve ordered 100ml from China since it’s seems there’s only 1 repacker there. They do have triglycerol but based on the one of the paper i read recently, Glycerin has a better healing rate, followed by Diglycerin, though i can’t find much info on Triglycerol itself to determine how well it performs.  

I’d be interested to know if you like the diglycerin once you try it! I noticed on Incidecoder it’s in a lot of Korean and premium products - essences, toners, gel creams etc. So maybe it’s only a matter of time before it becomes more popular and widely available.

[helenhelen]

@Zink I personally didn’t get a positive result from Floraesters K-20W - definitely nothing like the Floratech studies indicate. Moisturisation went down when I replaced part glycerin with K-20W. But my formulation is heavily reliant on glycerin for moisturisation… so any change in humectants is immediately felt. Maybe it’s better when the formulation doesn’t use as much glycerin in the first place.

[helenhelen]

jemolian said:

   

The diagram is from the NOF Macbiobride series, quite a few manufacturers has this 4 ingredients, so i’m supposing the Diglycerin would perform similarly to MP-10P based on description. I can’t find the MP-10P, so i’ll have to try the Diglycerin to find out. 

@jemolian Yes that’s quite a good description of diglycerin from my experience. It doesn’t go as deep as glycerin, but has more effect on the surface.. it adds moistness and slip without oiliness or tack. The lasting skin feel is soft/smooth/silky. Undiluted it is very thick and tacky but once it’s in water or an emulsion it’s like silky water. I just wish it was easier to get hold of!

[helenhelen]

Graillotion said:

helenhelen said:

@Graillotion Haha I knew you would be interested! I’m currently using a sample of Resassol DN from Res Pharma. I haven’t found anywhere reputable it can simply be bought yet unfortunately.

Well…I couldn’t find it either….other than ULP.  I guess if I can’t buy small amounts….no point in trying something I might love!?   

I guess the worst case is if you had to buy it from Alibaba where you can get it in 1kg amounts…

[helenhelen]

Graillotion said:

I guess if I sold it….small pack….I’d have a monopoly.   

Haha that’s sometimes what I think of these obscure ingredients that can’t be bought in small amounts… I should just repackage and sell them.. surely there are other people like me who want them??

[helenhelen]

Graillotion said:

helenhelen said:

I am! :p Out of the nearly one hundred rejected raw materials I’ve tried over six months, diglycerin has made it in. I’m not sure why it’s not more widely available.

Where are you buying this….you have peaked my interest. 

@Graillotion Haha I knew you would be interested! I’m currently using a sample of Resassol DN from Res Pharma. I haven’t found anywhere reputable it can simply be bought yet unfortunately.