Graillotion
Forum Replies Created
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I am low-tech, so this one works well for me.
Checker® pH Tester with 0.1 pH Resolution - HI98103 (hannainst.com)
Price is $29.00
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Since when did glass containers equate to quality. I think glass containers relate to marketing and the perception they want to create in your mind. The manufactures do not ship in glass, only the re-packers do. Therefore it is only a created perception. Just think of how many fake and watered down essential oils get sold every day….in glass!
Also your perception of quality would be different than mine…. if I received something with strong color and odor…, I would perceive this as lower grade or unrefined, and probably unusable in premium products. I typically use oils and butters from ICSC-Denmark, and they will be clean and mostly odorless. I can not me battling colors and smells in my products. Oils are basically fatty acid profiles….and the removal of colors and smells, generally does not change the fatty acid profile.
ICSC products have been available from Make your own.buzz…however they have recently sold the business, and who knows where the new owners will source their oils and butters.
The other place I have gotten really good oils from…is NDA. I do not know their source.
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MarkBroussard said:Graillotion said:If you are in the US… Let’s use Montano 202 as an example…it contains 3 ingredients. You do not list by inclusion of the individual ingredients, but as a whole. Say you include 4% Mont 202,…. You place the flowing entry where 4% would fall into your formula:
Arachidyl Alcohol (and) Behenyl Alcohol (and) Arachidyl Glucoside
So as an example, if water was your number 1 ingredient, and Mont 202 at 4% was the second largest ingredient…it would be listed second, just like I wrote it.
If you tried to divide the components out….your ‘fragrance’….might have 120 ingredients….
This is not correct. If you have 4% of a multi-component ingredient in the formula, you get the Compositional analysis ( let’s say for Montanov 202, it works out to 2% AA, 1.5% BA and 0.5% AG ) and then you list those ingredients in compliance with the labeling regulations based on the % included in the formula. Fragrances are only required to be listed as Fragrance per the regulations, but if you are selling in the EU, you need to call out the ingredients on the allergy list.
Good to know! I always hated for my emulsifier to be list so close to the top.
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Paprik said:I’m in NZ. I think we follow EU regulations in this matter.
I know how to make an ingredient list, I just got surprised, that there are some ingredients, where they don’t list individual input. So wanted to know how to deal with it. (For my study, I had to do IL, but they supply me with all info needed).
Ok, I will list it as is and on the correct % place.
Thanks!
Yes…the purpose of the ‘(and)’ on the INCI….is so you can copy and paste it….on your INCI.
Hehehehe…..so leave those in. -
The only reason it looks like some of the big MFG’s are splitting out an emulsifier, like 165 or Mont 202….is because they are making their own from the individual ingredients….due to cost savings, and possible performance enhancements tailored to their products.
If you are buying them ready made…you list them as the group they came in.When you see the word ‘and’ on an inci…that is a give-away that the product came as a combined ingredient.
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If you are in the US… Let’s use Montano 202 as an example…it contains 3 ingredients. You do not list by inclusion of the individual ingredients, but as a whole. Say you include 4% Mont 202,…. You place the flowing entry where 4% would fall into your formula:
Arachidyl Alcohol (and) Behenyl Alcohol (and) Arachidyl Glucoside
So as an example, if water was your number 1 ingredient, and Mont 202 at 4% was the second largest ingredient…it would be listed second, just like I wrote it.
If you tried to divide the components out….your ‘fragrance’….might have 120 ingredients….
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what country are you in?
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It sounds like you are trying to make the label INCI? If so, you have the information. Is ‘Material Composition’ something different than what it is made of?
Your supplier posts the ingredients….right on the opening page. It is right after the letters “INCI Name”
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And the other one is this:
ICE Silicone MakingCosmetics Inc. -
INCI Name:
Cetyl Alcohol (and) Sodium Polyacrylate (and) Polysorbate 80 (and) Glyceryl Stearate (and) Dimethicone/Divinyldimethicone/Silsesquioxane Crosspolymer
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well the inci for Mont 202 is as follows:
MONTANOV™ 202
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Company:
SEPPIC
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INCI Name:
Arachidyl Alcohol (and) Behenyl Alcohol (and) Arachidyl Glucoside
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emma1985 said:Graillotion said:suswang8 said:I really don’t see how you can use the Dynamic (with Blender Tool) for 100g without introducing a lot of air, but I’m glad (and a bit amazed ) you are able to pull it off. I do feel like the Dynamic has a head that for some reason is extremely powerful/efficient — more so than the OCIS — perhaps mostly due to the size/shape.
Naturally the ability to keep the head submerged is directly correlated to the shape and size of the beaker you are using.
The following link will take you to a beaker that is perfectly matched to the Blender tool.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L0JBZPI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I always make 150gm test batches, so I have plenty of room to spare. Even when I am working with just the water phase….The head is completely immersed. I use a lot of powders in my water phase, so the mini-pro sits in the water phase through out the heating process, giving it a number of spins.
Good point!! I don’t know how I forgot to mention that. Appropriate beaker size/shape makes a huge difference.
I love these ..
Both the 250 mL and 500 mL work just fine with the MiniPro.
Actually…that was the brand I used to use…..but was going broke (hehehe) with as many of them that I cracked. Switched to the other brand…which cost a couple bucks more….and have yet to crack one.
Also…. on the brand I linked….the bottom is much flatter, which gives the top heavy MiniPro a more stable platform when operating.
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suswang8 said:I really don’t see how you can use the Dynamic (with Blender Tool) for 100g without introducing a lot of air, but I’m glad (and a bit amazed ) you are able to pull it off. I do feel like the Dynamic has a head that for some reason is extremely powerful/efficient — more so than the OCIS — perhaps mostly due to the size/shape.
Naturally the ability to keep the head submerged is directly correlated to the shape and size of the beaker you are using.
The following link will take you to a beaker that is perfectly matched to the Blender tool.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01L0JBZPI/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1
I always make 150gm test batches, so I have plenty of room to spare. Even when I am working with just the water phase….The head is completely immersed. I use a lot of powders in my water phase, so the mini-pro sits in the water phase through out the heating process, giving it a number of spins.
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I would not leave home without that combo.
And now…. They are sold as a combination in the US finally!!! Why did that take so long????
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Wonder if that would translate through to the final emulsion color?
Are there known formulas that use that method?
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ngarayeva001 said:Is there a reason why you don’t want to use Blue 1 FD&C?
Yes…. the premise is basically a natural pain reliever. Blue #1would defeat that.
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I sent you a PM…if you are new to the forum….You have an INBOX tab at the top of the page.
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saraahsan said:PhilGeis said:How much water? Have you seen any mold or other microbial contamination?
my Lipsticks are water free. but after one year they start smells rancid my clients want more shelf life. at least 2-3 years
Sounds like you are trying to preserve your oils… You are barking up the wrong tree with parabens…. You need to be looking at antioxidents.
ROE / E / Bisabolol / Oil soluable C….etc..etc.
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Cinema said:@Graillotion- soaping I encountered early on and figured out how to overcome- not that it can’t happen again. But yeah I have mostly had higher viscosity and am usually trying ways to bring it down.I also had a question- what if there is an ingredient that manufacturers only ship as sample to businesses but I want to try- is there a way to ask around?
I assume you are not a business….. Cuz most of us get our samples from ULProspector, but it is virtually impossible to get an account without being an established business. The industry is fundamentally based on free samples….I have a room full of them. So other than getting a ULP account…the only other way I know of….is going directly to their website and asking. I suppose one other way…(and I have never been….cus Covid made an appearance)…would be attend an industry trade show…..guessing lots of samples there.
HOWEVER… I have long ago realized… If you can not find it at your re-packers….what is the point of getting the sample??? Let’s say you love it….then how are you going to get it??? And you will be left with a feeling of….Oh my product could have been sooooo good, if I just could have included ingredient X.
Maybe state what product you wanted to sample…and we can tell you what products are similar…that might be available from a re-packer. There is almost always a dupe or sub out there somewhere. Also…the re-packers like to re-name things…and some of us might know who has it…under what name.
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One more note….if you use more emulsifier than you actually need…you will often get a product that ‘soaps’. It will also be more expensive than it needs to be…and possibly the feel will be diminished. And the obvious….more thick than you want….(this does not hold true with all emulsifiers…as some do very little thickening. Increased viscosity and emulsification…are not synonyms.)
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PhilGeis said:It is a scam - do not use this junk in any application..
https://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/govi/pharmaz/2007/00000062/00000008/art00007
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jf0514064I don’t believe she is asking about the efficacy as a traditional preservative….we all know it does NOT perform well in that arena. I believe she is asking about the performance as an oil preservative (antioxidant).
If it is effective in that area….it has a lighter color and different scent profile that the aforementioned items…and therefore might have an advantage in certain situations.
Any good as a oil preservative?
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Graillotion said:Here are some additional instructions that go with the emulsifier you chose:
• In cold processed formulations TEGO® Care LTP should be combined with polymeric stabilizers/thickeners in order to adjust the viscosity and the stability profile of the emulsions. For body lotions combinations of 0.1 – 0.3 % TEGO® Carbomer 141 or
TEGO® Carbomer 140 with Xanthan Gum proved to be most effective. For the preparation of sprayable emulsions, a combination of TEGO® Carbomer 141 and TEGO® Carbomer 341 ER (Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylates Crosspolymer) proved to be most effective.• In hot processed creams TEGO® Care LTP is preferably combined with consistency enhancers such as
TEGIN® M Pellets (Glyceryl Stearate) and TEGO® Alkanol 18 (Stearyl Alcohol). Addition of small amounts of TEGO® Carbomer 134 (0.1 – 0.2 %) results in an improved freeze stability and in improved maintenance of the cream-like consistency at temperatures above 40°C.One more learning opportunity… Here is a line from the re-packer trying to sell you this product:
- Easy-to-handle liquid emulsifier for making cold emulsions without the need of a co-emulsifier
The two paragraphs above….are from the mfg…stating very boldly, for anyone wanting to read it…. NOT STABLE ALL BY ITSELF. (my paraphrase) (LMAO)
The less you believe in the product descriptions the re-packers use….the better formulator you will become. Their only goal…is to sell you something (and sometimes…to sell you the fixes…once they have you on the hook). Search any INCI on any reputable cream/lotion…and you will always see the stabilizers, and co-emulsifiers, no matter what emulsifier they started with. Even the ‘bullet proof’ one I recommended at the beginning of the thread….we typically will support it.
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Cinema said:Graillotion said:Aloe gel…is only aloe juice that has been thickened.
Look at the product you were using….Aloe juice was the first ingredient…then thickeners.
where I can learn how to make my own aloe gel
In formula…you do not thicken the individual components…you thicken the entire formula….so if you still chose to use aloe juice….it’s viscosity is irrelevant. You thicken the FINISHED product to the viscosity you desire, with the ingredients you desire….ie… cetyl alcohol, stearic acid, any polymeric…(again super careful here…as most of those hate Aloe)…etc. (not necessarily what I would choose…just what it sounds like you might have.)
Bottom line…you thicken the finished product…not the individual ingredients. Aloe gel…is only pre-thickened aloe juice.
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Here are some additional instructions that go with the emulsifier you chose:
• In cold processed formulations TEGO® Care LTP should be combined with polymeric stabilizers/thickeners in order to adjust the viscosity and the stability profile of the emulsions. For body lotions combinations of 0.1 – 0.3 % TEGO® Carbomer 141 or
TEGO® Carbomer 140 with Xanthan Gum proved to be most effective. For the preparation of sprayable emulsions, a combination of TEGO® Carbomer 141 and TEGO® Carbomer 341 ER (Acrylates/C10-30 Alkyl Acrylates Crosspolymer) proved to be most effective.• In hot processed creams TEGO® Care LTP is preferably combined with consistency enhancers such as
TEGIN® M Pellets (Glyceryl Stearate) and TEGO® Alkanol 18 (Stearyl Alcohol). Addition of small amounts of TEGO® Carbomer 134 (0.1 – 0.2 %) results in an improved freeze stability and in improved maintenance of the cream-like consistency at temperatures above 40°C. -
Cinema said:@ Graillotion- I did not know you could make your own aloe gel- will def try.I thought only aloe juice caused issued- aloe gel never gave me problems before
As Pattsi said…the Tego care LTP you chose…is not a good choice for Aloe (he said Electrolytes….same, same). Anytime you choose to use a claim ingredient like aloe…it will dictate what can emulsify it.
In this case…you did the double whammy…with adding a cationic solution and a strong electrolyte.
Lose the Aloe gel…You tried adding a finished formula…to your formula….usually not a good mix.
Even if you choose to use aloe powder….you might need to choose an emulsifier that plays well with electrolytes.
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Aloe gel…is only aloe juice that has been thickened.
Look at the product you were using….Aloe juice was the first ingredient…then thickeners.