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Trouble with dissolving powder components in water
Hi! I’m trying to make after sun soothing spray. Here are components:
Aloe vera juiceLavender hydrosolGlycerinCucumber extractPanthenol(powder)Allantoin (powder)Geogard ultra powderI mixed everything and heated slightly to dissolve powder components, but part of them still sit on the botom of the bottle. How can I dissolve them? I know that all of them are water soluble…
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10 Replies
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It would really get you farther if you included the ingredient percentages.
Panthenol is almost freely soluble in water (even 10% should be fine). So neither it nor the Geogard should cause issues at reasonable concentrations.
Allantoin is likely the most probable cause. It’s generally only soluble around 0.5%, and even then it can be finicky.
Overall, you may find better results by adding a polyol, such as butylene glycol at 1~5%.
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Can not help without percentages, but agree with seaberry, as allantoin will only go into the water phase at about .5%. A small additional amount can temporarily be tricked into solution with heat…but won’t stay there.
Mommy blogger sites like to try and get you to load things up, I think they get a cut from the repackers.
And my golden rule of cosmetics….Just because something is good at a low rate….does not mean it is better….at a high rate!
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seaberry said:It would really get you farther if you included the ingredient percentages.
Panthenol is almost freely soluble in water (even 10% should be fine). So neither it nor the Geogard should cause issues at reasonable concentrations.
Allantoin is likely the most probable cause. It’s generally only soluble around 0.5%, and even then it can be finicky.
Overall, you may find better results by adding a polyol, such as butylene glycol at 1~5%.
Panthenol - 5%
Allantoin - 5%
Geogard - 1%Thank you! So probably all the sitted powder is allantoin? I just read the percentage of Panthenol foaming spray, that I had at home and it claimed 10% of Panthenol+Allantoin. Hope decreasing % of allantoin will help.
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Graillotion said:Can not help without percentages, but agree with seaberry, as allantoin will only go into the water phase at about .5%. A small additional amount can temporarily be tricked into solution with heat…but won’t stay there.
Mommy blogger sites like to try and get you to load things up, I think they get a cut from the repackers.
And my golden rule of cosmetics….Just because something is good at a low rate….does not mean it is better….at a high rate!
Panthenol - 5%
Allantoin - 5% 🤦♀️
Geogard - 1%
Thank you. So it ia fully my fault, lack of attention while reading allantoin allowed percentage, 0.1-2%…
Do you think there are enough soothing components to make this spray really working, if I add
Allantoin 0.5
Panthenol 9.5
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Eugene said:Graillotion said:Can not help without percentages, but agree with seaberry, as allantoin will only go into the water phase at about .5%. A small additional amount can temporarily be tricked into solution with heat…but won’t stay there.
Mommy blogger sites like to try and get you to load things up, I think they get a cut from the repackers.
And my golden rule of cosmetics….Just because something is good at a low rate….does not mean it is better….at a high rate!
Panthenol - 5%
Allantoin - 5% 🤦♀️
Geogard - 1%Thank you. So it ia fully my fault, lack of attention while reading allantoin allowed percentage, 0.1-2%…
Do you think there are enough soothing components to make this spray really working, if I add
Allantoin 0.5
Panthenol 9.5
?5% allantoin makes sense. That’s never gonna dissolve.
As most of your formula is water-based, 0.5% would probably be okay.
9.5% panthenol would be fine from a stability standpoint, but that’s overkill. We don’t have tons of data on panthenol (relative to ascorbic acid, tretinoin, etc), but most of the studies we do have max out at 5% panthenol.
But then again, I imagine this is for personal use, and even commerical products with 10% panthenol do exist, so you do you
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seaberry said:Eugene said:Graillotion said:Can not help without percentages, but agree with seaberry, as allantoin will only go into the water phase at about .5%. A small additional amount can temporarily be tricked into solution with heat…but won’t stay there.
Mommy blogger sites like to try and get you to load things up, I think they get a cut from the repackers.
And my golden rule of cosmetics….Just because something is good at a low rate….does not mean it is better….at a high rate!
Panthenol - 5%
Allantoin - 5% 🤦♀️
Geogard - 1%Thank you. So it ia fully my fault, lack of attention while reading allantoin allowed percentage, 0.1-2%…
Do you think there are enough soothing components to make this spray really working, if I add
Allantoin 0.5
Panthenol 9.5
?5% allantoin makes sense. That’s never gonna dissolve.
As most of your formula is water-based, 0.5% would probably be okay.
9.5% panthenol would be fine from a stability standpoint, but that’s overkill. We don’t have tons of data on panthenol (relative to ascorbic acid, tretinoin, etc), but most of the studies we do have max out at 5% panthenol.
But then again, I imagine this is for personal use, and even commerical products with 10% panthenol do exist, so you do you
Thank you very much! If I only add 5% of panthenol and 0.5 allantoin, do you think It will be enough to calm skin afrter sun?
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(1) Heat your water phase to 55C to dissolve both the Allantoin (0.5% maximum) and Geogard Ultra which is normally soluble in water at RT, but heat always helps. Don’t heat above 55C as at higher temps you may see some Allantoin crystalize out.
(2) Panthenol (Powder) … this implies that you are using a D,L Panthenol. If you want to load up Panthenol at 9.5%, you’ll be better off using D-Panthenol, which is a liquid (available from DSM and repacked by Making Cosmetics).
(3) With that high a load of Panthenol (assuming D-Panthenol) and Glycerin in a water-based formula, this is going to be an unpleasantly sticky mess of a concoction.
Don’t chase the percentages that other people use in their formulas. Formulas advertising very high loads of indivudual ingredients are generally nonsense. Enough is enough, more is not necessarily better. With D-Panthenol, 0.5% to 1.0% would be sufficient.
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I typically formulate with dl Panthenol in the range of .4 to .5%.
I have been told I have very calming creations….
I always use Allantoin (at .5% of water phase….which is lower than .5% of total formula), and dl Panthenol at those very low rates.
Mark is absolutely right….Panthenol at higher levels….simply becomes sticky yuck….. and unlikely to create a benefit.
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@MarkBroussard
Not to hijack the thread but Mark, I am trying to get in touch with you and would like to see if you offer formulation feedback services. I have one that needs a quick glance. Thank you -
MarkBroussard said:@Eugene:
(1) Heat your water phase to 55C to dissolve both the Allantoin (0.5% maximum) and Geogard Ultra which is normally soluble in water at RT, but heat always helps. Don’t heat above 55C as at higher temps you may see some Allantoin crystalize out.
(2) Panthenol (Powder) … this implies that you are using a D,L Panthenol. If you want to load up Panthenol at 9.5%, you’ll be better off using D-Panthenol, which is a liquid (available from DSM and repacked by Making Cosmetics).
(3) With that high a load of Panthenol (assuming D-Panthenol) and Glycerin in a water-based formula, this is going to be an unpleasantly sticky mess of a concoction.
Don’t chase the percentages that other people use in their formulas. Formulas advertising very high loads of indivudual ingredients are generally nonsense. Enough is enough, more is not necessarily better. With D-Panthenol, 0.5% to 1.0% would be sufficient.
Thank you Mark! I remade formula according to your recommendation and it turned out great!
Graillotion said:I typically formulate with dl Panthenol in the range of .4 to .5%.I have been told I have very calming creations….
I always use Allantoin (at .5% of water phase….which is lower than .5% of total formula), and dl Panthenol at those very low rates.
Mark is absolutely right….Panthenol at higher levels….simply becomes sticky yuck….. and unlikely to create a benefit.
Just made new batch and consistency is good enough. Thank you! Hope it will be calming also))
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