[Graillotion]

I’d probably add a traditional humectant…as HA can be quite drying (I’d also drop the inclusion rate…unless you are referencing adding a 1% solution…at 3%.)

Why two preservatives? Drop the Geogard…as it won’t be doing anything at your pH anyway. You can consider adding something to touch up the YMF…that 9010 might miss. Add a chelate.

Collagen is just for claim….so drop the rate about 95%. Still has the same marketability.

Good Luck.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Not my area… but here is a sample formula… probably made by our friend, ChemicalMatt:

ICSC has a couple premade products….you could just repackage….and you’re off to the races. 🙂

• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

tattoo.pdf 165 KB PDF - Click to view

Options

• Copy Download Link

[Graillotion]

I guess it depends what your definition of a ‘gel cream’ is. To me…that means a cream that is created with typical emulsifiers, but has a gel undertone.

To create that…. you simply add a gelling agent to your typical emulsion. If you have an existing emulsion as a starting point, this step might cause you to need to lower other thickening agents…should you desire to keep the same viscosity.

HMW HA can be used….as it gels… but the lower weights….not as much. HMW HA can also have the gelling aspect ‘sheared’ out of it… so timing will be important….meaning add the pre-made gel….post emulsion.

What makes a gel-cream magical… is the gel ‘breaking’ upon application. Maybe you have heard the term ‘fast break’. This is when the gelled portion of the emulsion literally breaks….upon coming into contact with the electrolytes on the skin….and dropping their load of water. Hence those gelling agent MOST susceptible to electrolytes…make the most wonderful feel. Here is looking at you …. Aristoflex AVC. Without that fast break… you lose a lot of the magic that a gel-cream can provide. Long and the short…. you need an electrolyte sensitive gelling agent…if you want a mind blowing experience.

There are a few other hacks that can help. I like to include Lauryl laurate as an emollient….as it melts immediately at skin temp…and helps to exacerbate the fast break feel. Combine this with some pentylene (not propylene) glycol…which makes water feel wetter (and many other things)… and pretty soon you have something that feels like a water balloon exploding on the skin.

I guess as a backdrop…. On your primary emulsifiers, it is important not to use something gross and heavy feeling, like e-wax of OliveM 1000. Stick with lighter feeling base emulsifiers like 165 type, or even Mont 202, or my fav….. a combination of those two. Add techniques like I mentioned above….and you got something. Of course, keep your oils below 10%, and your butters below .5%….and off you go. Keep sticky humectants to a minimum and go crazy with the esters….you know…just the usual stuff.

Most gelling agents….don’t like a ton of shear….so address this in your process.

Good luck.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

I suppose the answer depends greatly on where you live. 😆

But since American’s are the only ones dumb enough not to state that…. lets start with this link. 😉

Hydroxypropyl Guar 1131 | MakingCosmetics

makingcosmetics.com

Hydroxypropyl Guar 1131 | MakingCosmetics

Hydroxypropyl Guar - Conditioning Thickener & Stabilizer

[Graillotion]

It is non-ionic…so should play well with other.

Side note: Keep an eye out for pilling… when I tested through it… I recall it causing said issues.

Good luck

technical-bulletin-pc-structure-xl-starch-global-en.pdf 779 KB PDF - Click to view

Options

• Copy Download Link

[Graillotion]

I see in the Evonik literature…. (about the only company that doesn’t just lie, Lie, LIE about their ingredients) … basically calls it a ‘component’ of preservation… with a tendency to be weaker on Gram + and Yeast.

[Graillotion]

I’ll poke this one again….since I am looking for some.

Any small MOQ in the USA?

I can get it at the Thai place…but hoping for something more local.

Aloha.

[Graillotion]

Sorry to be really blunt…but haven’t seen one like this is a while!

Umh… Missing a preservative! (Don’t point at the phytocide…that is wishful thinking.) While you are at it…get a chelate.

You have a who’s who of oxidation nightmares. Maybe study some of those…before sweeping the kitchen sink into the potion.

Aloe is all beginner hype…and no substance, other than being a preservation nightmare.

The glycerol is a good start, but tends to get sticky….if you use enough of it. Hence I would use maybe 3%, and consider adding something else….say sodium lactate…or many various and sundry humectants.

Coconut, mango and beeswax are heavy and nasty. Pretty much exactly what you don’t want for oily skin. Look at the esters…and lighter oils….like rosehip, raspberry, milkthistle…etc…etc. Butters are just thick oils…typically with a poor fatty acid triglyceride profile…but for some reason…beginners flock to them???

Good Luck.

There is a Free beginner formulation course affiliated with this site…. I think you might find it valuable.

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Just to make sure you understood what I meant. You should not use ANY purported preservative from the company that makes the one you listed. They cast a wide net…so make sure you know who the mfg is…not just the seller, and all the names they try and hide behind.

If you are interested in proper preservation, this site is honored to be frequented by one of the world’s foremost experts….you know….the guy that wrote the literal book on it. I will attach an interview with Perry and Dr Phil Geis…and if you like….you can view it.

Aloha.

Cosmetic Preservative Question & Answer session on Vimeo

[Graillotion]

Unless you are gonna zap it with high pH, and use it as an emulsifier. Why not consider behenyl alcohol? Stearic acid is an easy workaround…and working around it…typically makes the product better. 😉

[Graillotion]

Since I formulate in the US…. many of my ingredients are included at rates of 1% or .99%. This is due to where I want them to fall on the INCI.

[Graillotion]

Maybe just my weak mind…. but I have no idea what you are asking? Can you rephrase?

In the USA… We have the FDA… that gives guidelines on INCI format….and is supposed to reign in false claims. 😆 Trust me…..creative liberties are still rampant, and the ‘use it till you get caught’ theory is the rule among small companies and mommy bloggers. Ignorance is the best defence….right? 😉

[Graillotion]

Amino Powder Cleanser, Powder, Powder Cleanser (myskinrecipes.com)

myskinrecipes.com

Amino Powder Cleanser, Powder, Powder Cleanser

Powder Cleanser / Powder Foam Cleanser by detergent ingredients after coming from amino acids. Giving the skin the most tenderness

[Graillotion]

Emulsifiers certainly can be….as they are basically soap….a lot of the time.

[Graillotion]

As is about the answer for any emulsifier question, the ‘165’ type is always hard to beat (Glyceryl stearate and PEG 100 Stearate). Might be something to it being the world’s most widely used emulsifier. 😉 Thicken with some fatty alcohols…gel the water a kiss with a gum, and maybe .25% SSG (anionic aspect) to make sure it is bulletproof. BINGO….you’re done.

Probably would have been helpful….had you listed your last emulsifier package….and supporting cast member….you know…. fatty alcohols….gums….waxy esters….etc. Hard for us to put a puzzle together in the dark.

[Graillotion]

I do have to say….the way I formulate…. soaping is simply a non-issue. So, it is a little hard for me to address.

I did find this blurb from KK…and they are recommending using cetyl palmiate, aka cetyl esters. You could sure give it a try. They mention it in this marketing propaganda piece….listed as: Kester Wax K-48. I suspect the slightly more lovely Myristyl Myristate might do the same thing.

Another ester wax…that often enhances things would be: Lauryl Laurate. Hard to go wrong with that one.

Controlling Soaping in Your Emulsions without Silcones (kosterkeunen.com)

kosterkeunen.com

Controlling Soaping in Your Emulsions without Silcones

A common problem with emulsions arises when the formulation produces unwelcome “soaping” in manufacture or in use. Now you can control soaping without silicones.

[Graillotion]

Have you worked with this product @MarkBroussard ?

I have to say….skeptical me… started working with this a couple of weeks ago…along with two other additional glycolipids…. and I have been utterly shocked.

I have had a lifelong sensitivity to deodorant (any form other than aerosol, and my foray into glycolipids is the first days in my entire life… where a non-aerosol deodorant did not give me at least a tickle of irritation. I have spent the last two years trying to get to this point… and all of a sudden…. WHAM to the face….here yah go!

I need to do some more testing…as I used the Solabia material at 4X the rate of the others (per mfg suggestion). But I am positively optimistic.

Without stealing someone’s thunder…. a USA repacker will soon be offering two forms of Glycolipids, albeit not the Solabia one/s.

[Graillotion]

My point is… without the gel ‘breaking’…..you really don’t have anything….and it is a moot point. No amount of HA… will have the break of something like AVC. Might give a cooler feel…but no magic.

I tried to steer towards a polymeric that will ‘break’…. otherwise… you really won’t have much specialness. 🙂

I actually dislike HA…. at every level. 😆

• This reply was modified 7 months, 2 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Try this place….a lot of people down under…and globally use them:

Search (myskinrecipes.com)

myskinrecipes.com

Search

Search

[Graillotion]

Very lucky indeed! I have learned long ago….not to ask re-packers questions. Not only could they not answer questions, they could not even understand the questions. Feeble attempts of ‘cut and paste’ answers from marketing material was the best that could be achieved. The saddest thing I have ever seen…was on beginner forums… they would refer to these clueless wonders…as….. wait for it …. “Cosmetic chemists!” OMG….the insult of insults…for those that actually went to school! 😳

[Graillotion]

😂 Sometimes it helps to know….whom owns the retailer…then you can be assured that the information is worthless! On that note….what retailer have you ever found…that knew which way was up… with the exception of Simply Ingredients (speaking on behalf of USA only retailers)?

Preservative not working…. is the least of my concerns…. those types are a dime a dozen and available on every street corner. In all probability…if the OP returns to where the original information was sourced…. will end up with something almost as bad, or just as bad. My concerns with Company X… is the flippant use of any old petrol based preservative, much like their business model of following the example of Grape Fruit Seed Extract, and using an exemption not to list it on the INCI, the real preservative…. and then pretending it is natural….when it is actually less natural than some of those that don’t pretend.

With no mention of chelate, pH, glycols…etc… What can we really hope for?

• This reply was modified 7 months, 3 weeks ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Thank you for your feedback….I have done a tremendous amount of back and forth between Dicap Carb and Ethylhexyl isononanoate. I chose the latter as my final winner for dry emollient. What gave the Ethylhexyl isononanoate the ‘win’ was if gives a less shiny (more matte) finish….otherwise those two are my top picks for a dry emollient.

The project I just finished had a lot of silicone oils in it…. and I thought that the blend of Ethylhexyl isononanoate and the C12-15 AB was the perfect mix for stability with branched chain esters and with various polarities at play.

I have always been one to buy multiple ‘same’ ingredients from various suppliers and compare them, and have always found VAST differences! None more so than CCT….which ranged from nasty to elegant. But interestingly enough…..which I wouldn’t have expected from a synthetic ingredient….the runner up….for most varience….vendor to vendor….was absolutely… C 12-15 AB !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go figure.

So, I did end up with a C12-15 AB that I am very fond of….and for a guy that has made ester’s his lifeblood….that is saying a lot. I have to thank @chemicalmatt , and his pure and deep love for C 12-15 AB, for my continued testing of this multi-functional….to the point that I also came to cherish it. 😍

• This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Graillotion.
• This reply was modified 8 months ago by  Graillotion.

[Graillotion]

Yes….anything above 1% inclusion rate must be listed in descending order. Below 1% anything goes….and does go…in the name of formula protection.

I consider INCI contstruction….the 2nd most entertaining portion of the process…. listing the ingredients in a plausible, but completely different order….to keep the copy-cats at bay….and guessing.

Most of the beginners have no idea….and think reading an INCI is descending order….start to finish. 🤣 Makes them so interesting…..when you read their synopsis of products.

[Graillotion]

Many of us use them. Top notch.

A lot of times they rename the product. I suspect they have them…you just need to look a little deeper.

They ship DHL….you should have product in your hands….in 5 days.

Sodium Cocoyl Glycinate (myskinrecipes.com)

myskinrecipes.com

Sodium Cocoyl Glycinate

Detergent made from amino acids (amino acids) is very gentle. Moisturizing the skin And give a large amount of lather

[Graillotion]

When I asked the brilliant minds…. about this very question, the response was…. it is not so much the addition of low HLB that fixes the problem, but the corresponding reduction of high HLB that you replace with low HLB. If that makes any sense to you.

I would first and foremost…make sure you are not using too much emulsifier.

Another old trick….is to put the Montanovs into the water phase vs the oil phase….and they tend (like OliveM 1000) to create a finer emulsion that soaps less. NOTE: Not all emulsifiers can go in the water phase.

NOTE II: If using M 202 … make sure to heat phases to 85 C to get full melt.