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MarkBroussard said:

@Abdullah

Ooops! … My comment did not post.  To answer your question:

“So will there be any effect that zinc PCA or sodium PCA has?”

Let’s assume you mix 50/50 Zn Sulfate and Na PCA … Yes, but why not just use 1/2 the amount of ZnPCA and not have to combine two separate ingredients when you don’t get to list ZnPCA on your ingredient list?

Cost and availability to the small-time operator.  

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GeorgeBenson said:

@Graillotion

Aloha, I recognized that foliage instantly, and the Ohia trees, you must be in Hawaii! And I’m guessing Big Island, somewhere south of Hilo? Based on the ferns I’m gonna guess Volcano. 

Sorry don’t mean to be creepy, I just love it when I see encounter other big islanders.

Yes… Near Volcano.

Aloha.

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mikethair said:

Then within the context of your post, I’m really left field and outside the box….. we saponify plant oils to make soap. Yep, these products of the saponification reaction break surface tension effectively, and are not named dimethicone.

I was wondering about that concept.  As I use soap in day to day applications to break surface tension on liquids.  So….is soap a possible answer to soaping?

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For those wondering what a walk in the garden looks like in January, this picture was taken this morning.

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Hey the mommy bloggers call their cult leaders….Cosmetic Chemist….and I am pretty sure some of them don’t have a GED. 

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@Perry 

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Paprik 

Best alternative to Zinc PCA? … Sodium PCA Apparently there is synergistic effect when used with Sodium Hyaluronate/Hyaluronic acid.

Mixing Sodium PCA with HA provides what kind of synergy?  Humectancy? Other?  I am curious.  I use both, but not always in the same formula.

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Agree with Paprik, I believe most research has been performed at around the 4% level.  Anything above that might just be for marketing bragging rights….”Look at me….I have more than them….So I must be better!”

Best alternative for zinc PCA?….  Assuming this is a cost issue?  A genius once  whispered to me that answer… blend zinc sulfate (super cheap) with sodium PCA….and what do you have?  

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Well…I think this is an example of someone seeing a box of this in grandma’s fridge, and trying to get some mileage out of that aspect on the marketing side.

On the actually deodorant side…I see two negatives (and no positives).  One, it will irritate a certain percentage of possible clients.

More importantly, it is counterintuitive to what you are trying to produce.  It raises pH, when you are looking to lower pH.

I may market a deo soon, and one of my BIG marketing points will be…that it does NOT include this ingredient.  Just depends on which group you are target marketing.

Arrowroot is a good ingredient…but would never consider them interchangeable.  They do different things.

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Now that is strange….cus on the US INCI…they have listed…Dimethicone at 1%…and it is higher on the list, than the B5.  The B5 percentage is NOT listed on the US site.

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jemolian said:

The percentage of Panthenol is at 5%, 

Where did you get that Info?….The listing I saw….it stated Dimethicone at 1%…and it was listed higher than the B5.

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Perry said:

The answer is actually right on the front of the bottle: Dimethicone

It is an approved, OTC drug active for this very purpose. 

.

Would you like to take a guess,  @Perry , what the dimethicone level would be?

Do you think the polyisobutene….would have a similar result?

Aloha.

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https://www.soapandthings.com/Cyclomethicone-silicone-liquid-1-gallon-7-pounds-aka-Cyclopentasiloxane_p_2219.html

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Leo said:

Can anyone get me any D5 at this time?

Well….you did say….ANY… 

LC995 Cyclomethicone | Lotioncrafter

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em88 said:

Pharma said:

He’s referring to triethyl citrate. It’s not an acid but a tripple ester of citric acid with ethanol. Once pH increases, it hydrolyses turning into citric acid. This in turn brings the pH back down (and also stopps hydrolysis).

w/o emulsions also have a pH which can (and will) drift when using enough urea. Unfortunately, there is no benefit from using this type of emulsion when it comes to stabilising urea. I tried making w/o emulsions with 40% urea… was fun but didn’t work out (emulsion instability, not chemical instability). Urea is the same b*+ç# as always and heavily interferes with HLB/HLD calculations/estimations and oil phase integrity/stability.

I have read a few articles about using triethyl citrate to stabilize urea. I would give it a shot. Do you have any suggestions regarding any ratio TEC/Urea?

Thank you

I use HydroVance…which is not exactly the same animal…The mfg formulas I found…were running .2 to .3%.  But TEC is a nice ingredient…and actually a nice emollient….so maybe a little more is better.  I have a delightful deo formula…and it uses a full 5% of TEC.

Aloha.

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So it looks like you are making a whitening cream.

May I ask the obvious question?  Why the heck did you put milk in there?

Secondly…do a knock-out test….make the same product without the milk….see what happens.  Report back.

I do not work with whitening ingredients…is there a reason your pH is smack dab in the middle of the bug zone? (Limited by an ingredient?) 

So first…get a chelate…as you need one.

I am assuming you added milk…for maybe lactic acid???  If so…just lower your pH by using lactic acid.  You’ll be able to advertise the same thing…and upgrade to a quality ingredient.

Aloha.

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Leo said:

Has anyone used the Cetiol in a shampoo? Would the Cetiol have any effect on the foaming qualities of a shampoo? What would Cetiol do to the feel of a shampoo?

Cetiol is a line of products…you will need to be a little more specific. 

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Pharma 

BTW at this late time of the day it’s ‘guete Abe’ .

Actually….depends on who’s timetable we used…. As you know….we are exactly opposites….hehehe….12 hours apart.

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Pharma said:

Graillotion said:

…
I am typically using GLDA as my chelate…but also have sodium phytate on hand…. so could switch if need be.
…

Do not use phytate with silver (or any other metals). Phytate forms insoluble salts with most metals (in case of monovalent ones not chelates but that doesn’t change much).

Guete Morge

Thank you for your brilliance….you input is of immeasurable value.

Guet, merci

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Is it simply an emollient that falls somewhere between CCT and CCT…and very stable?

As someone once said….’a filler’?
 

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Leo said:

Can someone please provide a list of Cyclopentasiloxane ingredient suppliers?

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suswang8 said:

Well, now that you mention it, I did have one fundamental question:  how is it that the recommended dosing (roughly, 0.1%-0.5%) appears to be the same 

I think the reason for the range….is SP is used as more than just a chelate.  At the higher rates…they are touting a skin benefit.  

Aloha.

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PhilGeis said:

That is certianly one.  Also offers competition for other trace elements - Fe, Mg, CU.

Speaking of the metals….how about Silver?  Before you start swearing… I am using silver citrate at a low rate in a deo product, NOT as a preservative.

So I have read slightly conflicting thoughts amongst Phd’s on silver citrate in relationship to chelation.  So I was curious if you could weigh in on the topic.  One respected Phd basically said…without giving any details…. Silver Citrate and chelation don’t mix.  The other one….which I consider one of the most brilliant minds on the planet said this: Silver ions carry a single positive charge and, according to the HSAB system, are ‘soft acids’ which have a high preference for ‘soft bases’ such as thiols. Simply put, silver is a …. poor ligand for most chelates and will not interfere with GLDA or EDTA. These chelates may bind to the surface of colloidal silver particles but, unlike zinc, the effect isn’t strong enough to neutralise anything.

I am typically using GLDA as my chelate…but also have sodium phytate on hand…. so could switch if need be.

Aloha @PhilGeis  

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Pharma said:

The problem might be rose oxide, the main flavour component in essential rose oil. It has a very low scent threshold (one can already smell a ppb) coupled with it’s low concentration = it may for example evaporate to a degree even if the bottle seems hermetically sealed.

Store expensive EOs in the freezer.

Sorry…I should have been more clear.  
The scent only morphs…when included in a finished cream.

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localhost said:

Does it need to be in a typical deodorant container?  There is a company called pharmapump which sells airless vacuum dispensers that are pretty good.  They will send you out a sample if you ask. MOQ is 25 units at about $1 - 2 ea.

* https://www.pharmapump.com/ 

Thank you for the link.  I had actually gotten their samples before….for a different project (and their stuff was better than another sample I got).

I need to container to also do the spreading of the cream in the armpit….so one does not have to use their fingers.  Would like something like below: