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mikethair said:

The allergens analysis in a CoA is important.

Help me learn…as I use some EO’s in a certain project.  When you say allergen analysis in a CofA…. I have not seen such wording.

I will paste an example below…from my supplier.  Does that mean that the TWO items that are listed, those are the probable allergens of the the 67 constituents in that EO?

If so, I did not know that before.

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MarkBroussard said:

@Abdullah:

I use Phenethyl Alcohol quite a bit.  At best, you will get a faint Rose scent to any product that contains it.  Sensitive noses will pick up the scent, but generally most people will not identify it.  If you want to use it, it could function as a dual-purpose Preservative ingredient and “Rose scent booster”, but will not fragrance a product on its own.

If you pair it with a Rose Hydrosol, that would work.

Agreed…rose fragrance booster is a good term.  In my face cream I use 3% rose absolute, and I believe the small amount of P alcohol enhances that scent.

I package that product is glass…so no issues.

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Abdullah said:

 This does NOT carry into the final product, as far as I can tell.

@Graillotion What do you mean by this sentence?

That means….at .35% inclusion rate, I do not smell rose.

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I use some form of fragrance (EO or FO) in everything, so I guess what I should have said….was at .35% it was completely masked by my fragrance at .5%.

Therefore I can not help in estimating at what level it would serve as a fragrance.

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It does smell of roses…however I don’t believe it would make a cost effective fragrance.  I use it as PART of preservative package (head-space), and use it at I believe .35%.  This does NOT carry into the final product, as far as I can tell.

If you look at a GCMS of rose absolute…it is not uncommon for it to be 50% PHENYLETHYL ALCOHOL

So….when you smell a rose…you are smelling…phenylethyl alcohol.

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Google found this:

EPS SEAMAT PA

Technical Datasheet | Supplied by Codif

Water (98%) (and) Saccharide Isomerate (1%) (and) Phenethyl alcohol (1%). EPS SEAMAT PA is a water soluble marine exopolysaccharide with a unique and completely new structure which gives it the property of an immediate mattifying agent. It absorbs the excess of sebum on the surface of the skin and reduces shine within one hour till the end of the day. Neither abrasive nor harsh, its astonishingly light and fluid texture respects oily and combination skins. The purified active ingredient combines the effectiveness of synthetic molecules with the natural properties of plant extracts. Its high molecular weight gives it a particular affinity for skin and surface properties which are of interest in treating cutaneous shine. EPS SEAMAT PA is used in day mattifying liquids, BB creams and products for greasy skin.

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What about arrowroot…also insoluble in water…but sure goes into water (suspension) easily…and once it meets the oil phase….pow.

Acts as a mild mattifier, and mild textural enhancer.

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On that aloe butter….there is a small chance that they included some water and an emulsifier to put the aloe into solution (water), and emulsified it to create the perception of a butter….Just depends how they made it (often hydrogenated…hence I usually refer to them as margarine ).
That could be an area of concern (preservation)….
I like to stay away from the fake butters….even though I may use the ingredients they used…at least I know what is going into my products….and can control the quality. (I have yet to find a value in fake butters.)

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As said above….stay off the mommy blogger sites…as that will all have to be unlearned if you hope to progress in this area.
Secondly…Aloe does not make a butter…that is some man made product….more than likely a lot of soybean margarine….and WHO KNOWS WHAT ELSE, as it is a completely fabricated item.
As you did not mention water…your concoction is not an emulsion.
(Delete from your favorites…the site that said glycerin was oil soluble…thank me later.)

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Yes… process can make a huge difference in the end product…even when the ingredients are identical.

Here is a video a friend sent me recently, that demonstrates this:

Making an Emulsion // Hand Stir VS Homogenizer - YouTube

I guess…the first rule of consistency…would be…..Be consistent.  Once you get your process down, time everything, and make that part of your instructions.  This would also include….what settings your machines were at during each interval.

As far as whitening, many things contribute….from what emulsifier, what fatty alcohol…how yellow you oils/butters are….and of course….process.  So yes…in your last paragraph….all of those are factors will contribute.

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They work in different ways.

Why choose.

I use them both in the same product.

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Also you did not list pH.  You can not have a conversation about preservation without the pH being listed.

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May I ask where you got the information…that Potassium sorbate is a stand alone preservative?

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A sneak peak at your new world.

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Illipe and Murumuru are the only two I am using any more…cus I hate the greasy feeling of the others.

I do make a product with intentional greasiness…and I use cocoa.

The key is …. how much you use.  Mommy blogger formulas will make any of the butters feel greasy.  

The face cream I made today…had .75% each of the ones mentioned at the beginning.  3.8% other natural oils, and 5% CCT….Now that feel good.

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After further review….the above is a slightly different product…but wait….it gets worse.

The recalled product advertises…with gem stones…and is sold in a clear bottle, and looks like a scoop or river gravel from the Ganga river is included in every bottle… OMG.

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I tried to do a little digging….

Looks like product was made in India.

And I believe I found the INCI:

Sorry for the dumb question…but the product was labeled as a essential oil infused spray…. Can essential oils just be lumped under ‘fragrance’?

@PhilGeis
@ketchito

And apparently you can get an ‘#ell’ of a deal on them….on e-bay.   

9 NEW BETTER HOMES LEMON & MANDARIN AROMATHERAPY ROOM SPRAY | eBay

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Perry said:

As an emollient, sure.

As something else…one will do something that the other will not?  Maybe the CI will have a little more skin softening?

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SaraLee said:

Graillotion said:

Use GLDA at half the rate…on cationics.

I’d love to get my hands on some, but as a hobbyist I haven’t been able to find a small batch source.  If you know of one I’d be forever in your debt!  How about sodium phytate?

Ahh….not sure where you live…but if in the US….you can get it here.  It also took me a long time to realize that MC was using a synonym, instead of the common nomenclature:

TSGD (Tetrasodium Glutamate Diacetate) 1602 | MakingCosmetics

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Pharma said:

This is not just due to the (co-)emulsifiers within the oil phase which need to get to the interface but also because coco glucoside is a polymeric and therefore a ‘slow’ emulsifier which needs some time to ‘get in place’ and if the oil has already hardened too much it can’t incorporate into the interface.

I assume this is also why the glucoside Montanov’s recommend you not ‘rapid cool’ their emulsions?  Same idea?

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SaraLee said:

Abdullah said:

EDTA is also incompatible with cationic surfactants

Oh really? Wow! I thought EDTA was commonly used in cationic conditioners

Use GLDA at half the rate…on cationics.

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I will repeat what has been said….take you niacinamide formulas down to 4.8.  When you finally dig out the one piece of misinformation on my why re-packers say that…it will make you sick.

If you play around with the search bar….you can find it here.  Trust the info you get here…1000 times more than the re-packers.

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I will toss in this last piece…. a year ago…I was trying to lean on the emulsifier (like Mont 202) to do the heavy lifting (texturally speaking) in my formulas.  I have concluded that was not the best route.  Now, much of the time…I just take the bulletproof 165….and dress it up in fancy clothes.  You can turn that puppy into ANYTHING, with the right add ins…and it will never complain….Something the Montanov’s did all the time.

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No keep the gums….just at a lower rate…or replace them with a polymeric emulsifier, or a combo of polymeric and carbomer.

The gelling aspect helps with texture and structural integrity.  Just that many are of the opinion…too much gum….doesn’t quite feel awesome.  Just keep in mind…gums can handle tougher situations…like electrolytes, or other difficult situations…that will send the polymerics screaming into the night.  So when you use scary words like ‘actives’…that might mean you will have to stay with the gums.

I recently just tested through a bunch of gums….and I found a slight stickiness with the solagum AX…something I did not find in the Siligel.  I think Pharma would say that the acacia gum in Solagum….is one of the most structurally enhancing gums of the bunch.  My gum test was done at .3%….pretty much a number I don’t like to exceed.  (Only from a textural perspective.)

So gum can be switched with polymerics and carbomers…. neither of these would make a proper swap-out with GSC…. So pick a gum or polymeric, and enhance the glucoside based emulsifier with GSC.  It won’t take much….I often only use about .75% of GSC.

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When you pull from a mfg website…their goal is to feature the ingredient/s they sell.  So I would consider that a bare bones formula…with not much in the way of elegance, to overshadow their emulsifiers.  As Pharma said…. please…tweak the formula.   
If it were my formula…I would lower the gum level, and increase the support via an anionic emulsifier like GSC.
And of course….add the chelator.