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Cdsgames said:

There is an ingredient called Escin or Aescin . check the research on it.

Thank You…already had it on order….hehehe.  (Pharma already had me chasing horse chestnuts. )

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Pattsi said:

Coffee extract or caffeine is good for claim but might be too common.

In my humble experience, greatest sale eye cream is the one with blur effect + super long lists LOI.

I am expert par excellence, when it comes to super long LOI’s.  I think I might just nail this.   

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Pharma said:

@Graillotion Do you have loa loa?

Well….I was born in Africa, but have not been back in 53 years….so thinking I don’t.

But if I make an eye cream with that…it will sure be a good preventative…right?  

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Bill_Toge said:

hexylresorcinol is a good material for reducing dark circles under the eyes - you only need 0.5-1.0% for it to be functional

Does it get rid of worms…as a secondary benefit?  ::smile:

How is the smell?

Can it be sourced…small scale?  (Are you using Synovea® HR?)

So far, I have Preparation H and a wormer…. Hehehe…that sounds like a challenge to put a good marketing spin on that.  

***  Does the consumer expect an eye cream…to have lightening properties? ***

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Second question.  If one reads the full article, one discovers that emulsifiers containing cetearyl glucosides greatly increased the challenge of preservation.  Aka Montanov 68 and the likes.

Question… Several of the other Montanov’s also contain various glucosides, starting with different names like Arachidyl Glucoside or C12-20 Alkyl Glucoside.  Will all glucosides have this same detrimental performance….or is that something unique to ‘cetearyl’ glucoside?

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To me, the theory is all wrong… you don’t try and ‘cover up’ irritants with soothers…. You remove the irritant.  Take your suspects and apply them neat…for as many days as it takes to develop irritation.  Then once you have found the irritant, replace it with something that does not.

I use ‘soothers’ all the time…but NOT to counteract irritants.  In my simple mind, that is a little counterintuitive.  

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Would you consider translating this into formulating language?  More people will look at it then.

That would be…grams…and percentages.

Aloha.

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esthetician922 said:

 How can I legally hide some of the ingredients? 

You are aware of the 1% rule?  Where you can jumble the ingredients that are used below 1%.  This is about the only way to make life a little more difficult for copy-cats.

But any good formulator…should be able to knock off your formula…in say…an afternoon.    

You’ll find….it is all about the marketing…and not nearly as much about your formula as you think….Sorry.

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PhilGeis said:

You can manage some greater specs but a high count will likely throw your finished product out any appropriate spec and may well include objectionable and contamination risk microorganisms.  How will you bring the finished product into spec? FDA does not like folks who use preservatives to control manuf risk.

You’re putting at risk not only the product but also your manufacturing facility.

Not AT ALL familiar with what kind of equipment a mfg plant might have….but could material like this be irradiated as it came into the facility?  Hehehe….or does that fly in the face of ‘natural’?  

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I did not get my current bottle here….but most people sell it.

Rosemary Antioxidant CO2 Extract (newdirectionsaromatics.com)

Rosemary Oleoresin (ROE) | Lotioncrafter

Rosemary Oleoresin Extract (ROE) (formulatorsampleshop.com)

I don’t recall seeing it much above the 7% range.

Aloha.

@Anca_Formulator 

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We better not even mention what a few drops of Buah Merah oil does to one of my creams.  (Few drops in 150 gram trial)    Good thing is is only in there for the ORAC value.   **WARNING**  if you apply Buah Merah neat…you will look like TRUMP!     *** DISCLAIMER*** Samples get used so fast…I have NO IDEA how long the color lasts.  :p

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As mentioned above…I use MT-E, ROE high in carnosic acid, and ascorbyl palmitate, and sans the high temp testing…product keeps color for a year, in a dark glass jar.

It is a 54-ingredient pain cream…so there is the possibility that other factors are at play.

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Pharma said:

BTW two more things:

1: I was a bit astonished that propanediol esters weren’t used as preservatives… 

@Pharma I should have asked earlier… what about just plain propanediol…(not the esters) where does it fall into this discussion.  I use it as a humectant, with the hope that it is also contributing to the overall preservation.

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Sounds like you have already checked with Floratech (as Mark suggested)…but the first place my mind goes…when I see Jojoba esters….as that is the INCI for one of their beads.

Interactive_Particles_Brochure.pdf (floratech.com)

If the beads…are dissolving/breaking down on application….sounds like they are using there Florasomes or their Floraspheres, which are much softer, and break under moderate pressure.

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One more extension of this concept… If C 10 is the optimal cell membrane disruptor….and I did notice a number of vendors promoting C 10 for deodorant actives….something near and dear to me…as I am putting the wraps on an emulsified deo… Would that mean C 10 type would be the most effective in deodorant?

Or did @Pharma mean that C 10 was the optimal balance between cell membrane disruption….and water solubility?

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Let me take this one step further…into preservation…. We see a trend of brands trying to ‘naturally preserve’ with primarily glycols.  If they primarily disrupt the cell membrane of bacteria….I always assumed this was softening up….laying the ground work for ….. something else to come in…and finish off the bacteria… like phenoxyethanol (or others).   So, is it realistic to expect industry acceptable bacteria protection from JUST cell membrane disruptors?  Does not seem super logical to me…. But hey…I was a business major.   

@Pharma  @PhilGeis

For the moment…I am not including yeast/mold/fungi…. just a bacteria discussion.

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Yes, I have about the same question….  Is a blend of glycols better than say…just more of one good one?

I always assumed that glycols were cell membrane disruptors….so if all the longer chain ones simply disrupt cell membranes….can a synergy be created…or a single good glycol in functional amounts will suffice?

Aloha.

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Formulator said:

6 carbon glycols: hexylene glycol, and 1,2-hexanediol (when OH groups are specifically at 1st and 2nd position); 7C 1,2-heptanediol, 8C caprylyl glycol, 10C decylene glycol. It’s good to keep in mind that increasing chain length decreases water solubility.
Some materials which are used similarly to previously mentioned diols are ethylhexylglycerin and caprylyl glyceryl ether.

Thank you…I think I must have most of the bases covered…as I use pentylene glycol, a blend of 1,2-hexanediol and 1,2-octanediol, and EHG in every formula.  
The only ones I am lacking are the 7 and the 10.

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Just for giggles…and knock-outs…. do you have TSGD/GLDA?

Try a formula subbing the sodium phytate with this.

I have learned…there are fewer possible issues with this chelate.

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MarkBroussard said:

@Anca_Formulator

(2)   Not unusual for an emulsion that is blue at RT from the inclusion of Blue Tansy oil to turn brown in the oven.  Your base prior to the inclusion of blue tansy oil would have been a light beige.

I use BT EO….and have not had the issue…but I use a pretty maxed out AntiOx program.  The usual E + ROE but then I also add ascorbyl palmitate that purportedly really enhances the performance of E.  I cannot support this comment…just what I heard on the street.  Granted…it works for me.  

 I did not test under elevated temps…just time….a year at room temp.  As you are aware…sometimes the stress test will produce results that will essentially never manifest in real life.

** Are you using BT that is beyond reproach?  I am guessing that would be a TOP choice for a vendor to adulterate.  (I get mine from New Directions Aromatics.)

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Hehe….double lecithin source…. Isn’t that just taunting fate?

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If you’re using the gum….at low levels….I doubt you would notice a swap to Solagum AX.

As far as the emulsifier….yeah…you’d have to try a few things.

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Any way to work around your two lecithin sources?  Pretty sure that is the number one bug food in the world.  

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Isaac52 said:

One of my friend even said that i can use grapeseed oil as an oxidant because it contains also vitamin E.

Friends are great to have…but not always a good source of information.  

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ngarayeva001 said:

Have you got a microscope? It might worth the investment if you are interested in droplets size/shape. SWIFT Microscope Compound Trinocular SW350T, Research-Grade for Lab, 40X-2500X Magnification, with Wide-Field 10X, 25X Eyepieces, Siedentopf Head, Camera-Compatible, Mechanical Stage, Abbe Condenser https://amzn.eu/d/1fNsmTb

Yes…my lack of looking at my emulsions through a microscope is for lack of a microscope.

Thank you for the info…I’ll have to look into this.

I always say…. I’ll design one more formula…and be done.  Of course, this is never true…hehehe.