gordof
Forum Replies Created
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Carbomers normally do not tolerate Ions very well. maybe that is the way they are normally not combined with Iron Oxides and so on you put a lot of Ions into your system and I would guess they destabilize your gel a lot.
Another reason could be that Carbomer Gels are normally not very water-resistant formulations and it is difficult to get them to be one, while makeup products normally need to be water-resistant to a certain point otherwise they will be smeared all over after a few hours.
I found a carbomer formulation for a black i-liner Ultra Black Eyeliner (Formulation #CC-E0016[EU]) by Lubrizol - Personal Care & Cosmetics (ulprospector.com) that uses carbopol aqua. maybe it depends. Does someone have any other ideas why it is not used that often together?
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hmm are you able to get to the right viscosity by adding more or less NaCl? Normally the difference between batches should not be that dramatic but if they are you can maybe just regulate by using different amounts of salt to thicken the formulation. even if it is a pain to do that in a production.
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I would say that depends on your technical possibility. if you are able to make a Plant extract yourself with the necessary equipment time and Personal for that you can just extract all 4 together will although already separate some of the plant parts that are not good in Combination
If you don’t have that possibility you can either find an Extraction company that does the extraction of the 4 together for you, or you can find one that gives you access to the plant extract that you need.
Just be aware that sometimes if you mix plant extracts you get some separation of particles and plant parts that react with each other over the first 2 or 3 days. so be sure to Filtrate them after mixing and time to separate.
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Is it Clogging the opening after it is dried in? Sometimes with dish soaps if they have time to dry out it accumulates over time and therefore clog the outlet. the formula itself does not look like there is something that can recrystallize within your formulation or anything.
If it is in fact an accumulation over time you could add an ingredient like glycerin to keep it moist for a longer time.
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well, I think a scale for 2 kg should be able to give information about 0.01g increments so that your actives, etc can be weight correctly in any way if you go for the 0.5 % weight variance per increment/ Ingredient
In Europe, u need to have a protokoll bock for your scale and it needs to be calibrated 1 time a year. which means you need to have a Standard 100 g weight and show that it still is not more than 0.01 g away from that 100g if you put it on after that it is ok for 1 year once a year you need to send away the standard weight to be checked externally.
For Pharma GMP you would need to Test every day in the same manner and once a year a control person from outside the company needs to be there to check if what you are noting down in the Logbook is accurate and if the scale still works how it should be. although you need to check your standard 100g weight every 3 months.
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I would suggest you, contact the supplier of those microspheres and explain to him your process and what you have in mind for doing to the raw material. I think they will give you a profound answer and reason if you can or cannot do what you are planning to do.
Some Microspheres can be shattered by harsh energy input to the formulation.
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well, I would say it depends as it often does.
In general, there is no perfect ph for a lip tint as long as you are in a range from 4-8 you are in a green zone.
Optimum is, if your Conservation system and your formulations are stable and the skin does not React to the Formulation because of the pH.
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If it is The production cost not the development cost. then I can say it is a price that is rather high but can be Coursed because of the high cost for Getting the machinery ready. 1000 Pices is a very low quantity let’s say the preparation of the Filling line takes 4 Hours and 2 persons make 8 hours technical persons to pay for + 1 person from the filling team maybe to make adjustments etc. If you say a Technician Costs 150€ an hour. that makes already 1200€ only for the Preparation of the Mashinerey to fill your 1000 Pieces.
If you know to calculate that the filling line will maybe fill 15 Pices per min (with that small scale you will not be faster) that means your filling process will take 1h 6 min let’s say they calculate 2 h because the machine that puts on the label will maybe not work directly very good and so on. for the filling process you need 2 Persons on the filling line 1 Put on the new Bottels 1 to Put the BOttels into the Folding boxes they cost 80 € per hour makes additionally 320 € for the personal of the filling it self.
Energy etc on top let’s say another 80€
makes under the line 1600€ just for the filling cost.
The same goes for the Production of the Bulk let’s say you have 50 ml bottles make 50 kg production. you have 1 or 2 hours for Weighing the Materials (depending on how many ingredients are inside) 2- 6 H For production if you have a heating and cooling process. In that time you have a Production person standing next to the machine lets say 100€ per h making worst case 800 € on top.
So now you have 1600+800= 2400 € if you split that on the 50 kg bulk 48€ per kg
Additional Cost will be Organization in the background (ordering Raw materials; Analytics; Putting your Formulation into the System; Etc) let’s say makes another 200€ per kg. just for time and Personal.
Let’s say they want to make moony with that they will have to Charge 25 % on top makes already 312.5€.
Now it depends if the Price is ok or not.
Did you Pay them for the Development of the product or is it your Formulation? if so then it is too high. If they Developed the Formulation without payment the payment will just be included in the estimated production Values. Product development will cost around 5000 to 10000 € depending on the complexity and the Person that is doing the development. if you Calculate that into your 100 Pices Price the cost will explode of course.
For the Stability Study, it depends some companies like to separate all possible activities so the customer can decide if they want for example use an external laboratory for Stability studies. In general, I would say yes, stability will be part of development but the costs will then just be integrated into development costs and then depending if you paid development separately or not included in the Kg price.
hope that helps
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well. Most of the effectiveness at a ph between 7-8 comes from the benzyl Alcohol.
The Sorbic Acid will lose its effectiveness around a ph of 7 before that point around a ph of 6 10-20 % of the Sorbic acid will be in acid form and therefore still active. at a ph of 4.5, it would be 80 %
For the Salicylic Acid, it is similar I think if I remember correctly the active point for the neutralization of Salicylic acid is around 6.5 . above that, the active concentration will be very low.
I guess the idea of the Product is depending on the Product you want to use one of the two will be active and therefore eliminate the bacteria and Molte. I personally would not consider using something like that it is better to have a conservation system that works exactly for your parameters because it makes the efficiency so much better.
I think from this conservation system you have to use at least 1% to be sure it works in all mediums well enough and probably you need to use another conservation medium to help like Pentylenglycol or something similar with 3 -5 %. above ph 6.5 two parts of the system will be useless so I can use Benzylalcohol in a similar amount and have the same effect without building up the salt level in my Formulation.
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hi well, you can get this kind of stuff normally from a well organized laboratory supplier.
I would look at VWR for example and search for IKA stirrers
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Could you clarify in which country and for what kind of stirrer you need a Propeller? There are several Traders out there that have different kinds of Stirrers.
for me in europ I Prefer Viscojet Stirrer Home - VISCO JET® Rührwerke the have a kit for the laboratory and it is really nice for air Free steering.
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hi
I would suggest to you if you are new to formulation go to the basic Internet Compendiums for Formulations. Of course this side is a good way to clarify your problems. but you can use the Basic Formulations from suppliers of Raw materials or Formulations that are available on the internet.
For Example, you can search on Prospector and filter for formulations Find Shampoo bar for Personal Care & Cosmetics applications, search data sheets, MSDS and request samples | Prospector (ulprospector.com)
and you find several basic formulations to look at. eliminate all the chichi ingredients like Plant extracts or anything similar and just look at the ratio of the main raw materials to analyze in which amounts your ingredients should be used.
Other sides you can look at
Chemicals Marketplace - ingredients & raw materials - Knowde
and then the fun of experimenting and finding the solution starts.
PS You may be a new formula but you are not bad just because it took you 4 Tries to get to a solution sometimes Formulators need 50 and more Triess to be satisfied with their product so don’t be so harsh on yourself and try to enjoy the journey of learning something new about a new area of development you don’t know a lot right now.
May Elun be with you Illidan :)????
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hi in General if you want to know something about the toxicity of Raw Material you can go to
Most raw materials are registered there it’s a European official website but the toxicity data should be the same for Europe and USA or where ever you are located :). For animal testing, there is as far as I know no website where you can get explicit data. you need to ask the supplier of the raw material if they have done anything in that direction you can get a certificate if or if not.
there are some websites where you need to pay a yearly fee like Coptis Tox, toxicology database for example. They gathered that date but you don’t always get Animal testing.
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hi
i would not suggest that. For Cosmetic Products the Amount of Heavy Metals is detected and can not exceed certain amounts for Cosmetic Grade Colour Iron oxide. I would not be Shure about that if you use Iron Oxide that is used for paint. the Risk is too high and i would say it is not alowd to be used for Cosmetic Products.
OFcours we can have a discussion about the Production line and that they are the same for Piant and for Cosmetics products but in my experience the Discussions and the problems that could generate are more expensive than just buying a cosmetic grade Pigment.
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well ok could you specify what the problem is it is rather difficult to tell by your title. do you have Separation is pH a problem is it not working as intended??????
And please give us some informations about your formulation otherwise you will not get answers that help you very much
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hi
i don’t think there is a rule how much water you could add to a conditioner or any other product in the market. As long as you can provide the necessary data about Stability Microorganisams and Patch Tests you will probably not have a problem with that. Lots of Conditioners have a lot of water like yours so it is not a problem at least with my knowledge about the FDA Cosmetic registration process.
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your only option is to ask the supplier of the raw material for certification about animal testing. other than that at leas in europe i don’t know of any database wear you can see for all suppliers of raw materials if they tested on animals or not. And as far as i know, it is always not regarding the total of all suppliers it is always specific to one supplier you are getting the raw material from.
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hi there
one of the best books for sunscreen is even if it is a little older ISBN 9780824757946
SunscreensRegulations and Commercial Development
for your problem, i would go and discuss it with the suppliers of that kind of raw materials they have the moste data. As far as I know, there is no problem with a ph of 5 for avobenzone Homosalate and Octocrylene of Octisalate I am not sure.
If you start Formulating suncare products you can use the various sunscreen formulators online like
DSM SUNSCREEN OPTIMIZER™ (sunscreen-optimizer.com)
Sunscreen Simulator (basf.com)
These sides have a lot of information and are great tools to generate the basic Sunscreen composition even if it is not 100 % correct it still is a very good and easy starting point.
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Normally in Makeup removers, all ingredients that are added additionally to a product besides the surfactant are mostly marketing claims. Every oil will be already encapsulated in the surfactant and not settle or stay on the skin every water soluble ingredient will be washed away with water afterward and only a small residue will stay on the skin. I myself prefer to have clean skin after makeup remover and then put on a good cream to rehydrate and protect the skin. Therefore i Prefer milder surfactants like i said Glutamate or Amino acid ones because they don’t sting or leave a itching feeling like SLES or SLS
sadly i don’t know a lot about DHT blockers and their efficiency very well but as far as my knowledge goes it is a very long-term use necessary and you need special treatment components for that. I found this article Everything You Need to Know About DHT Blockers | hims (forhims.com)
Maybe it helps it’s not super scientific and you probably need to compare with other more science-based pages but it gives a good first impression of what can be possible and what is marketing only.
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hi
I would suggest looking into Cetiol Sensoft (Propylheptyl Caprylate) / Cetiol RLF (Caprylyl Caprylate/Caprate) / Cetiol Ultima (Undecane (and) Tridecane) for that kind of thing if you want a very light natural oil that counteracts the stickiness of argan you could use a safflower oil
i myself like the combination of RLF 2 parts and Sensoft 1 part a lot
you need to create a spreading cascade with a light touch and therefore you need a bigger amount of something to counteract the heavy argan.
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hi there
1; Do you want a Scatter effect so that wrinkles will look finer and your face smoother? if so Titanium dioxide is probably not the right thing to take, it will make a very dry feeling on the skin and the withe residue will probably not match any skin type as far as I know only nanomaterial has some power in that direction and there are more efficient ingredients out there. I would suggest using something like a Slicia or a Cellulose type that promotes that kind of effect if you don’t want to mention a mica on the skin.
2: if you have a stick formulation is it an emulsion or a Fett stick? if it is a Fett Stick encapsulation is not possible because encapsulation happens mostly in Liposome Complex and they need water to Form. for a “hard Emulsion,” it could be achieved but it is not a very easy task, and need someone with experience to get it done. although there is no guarantee that the Capsulation will survive your heating phase to form the stick.
3: A cleanser that feels dry is taking away the fat of the skin which is something you want to do with that kind of product. hyaluronic acid and Niacinamide will not give an immediate effect on the skin it will help in the long run if not washed off (and most will be washed off). I would suggest changing the type of surfactant you are using to a milder one like glutamate surfactant or amino acid surfactant they are more expensive but they are not as drying to the skin. or add a film former with a nice touch like a Silk protein even if it is a very expensive ingredient to just wash off and only leaf a little residue. .
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Please give us a little more information about your Ingredients and % of it. For example, it can be caused by Potassium sorbate in a higher concentration or ……. there are so many reasons like too much or the wrong Surfactaned for a wash of.
Course AHA itself is able to promote stinging on the skin as well as lactic acid. depending on the ph of the product 3 % seems very sour to me.
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Could you specify how high the ethanol content should be? do you mean just Ethanol + some Foaming agent ? or water-ethanol + foaming agent?
For pure Ethanol, I would say it is not possible in a good way. the foam will probably always be very bad if even foaming up l means you use ethanol in production to destroy Foam so the properties are rather in opposite directions :).
if you know products like that it would be interesting if you could share the INCI than it would be possible to analyze the different ingredients and see what may work.
For Water Ethanol and a Foaming agent, I would direct you to
20 - max 30 % Ethanol
1-2% PEG-7 Glyceryl Cocoate
5-8 +Cocamidopropyl Betaine
I made a Cleansing foam with similar Specifications and it was ok not great but ok.
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i would suspect your ph is very acidic with this formulation. for how long do you let it stay on the skin before rinsing it off?
I guess if you feel stinging it already exfoliates all the dead skin and you are starting to exfoliate the skin that is intact.
For the ingredients, some people react to Phenoxyethanol and Propandiol but I would bet more on the time and acidic train than on that being the reason.