[ggpetrov]

Thanks for the answers. Yesterday I’ve tried to put it in the hot water phase at 2%. Everything is fine, and generally I don’t feel any stickiness.

Regarding the Betaine, I have used it few years ago (Glycine betaine), but I found it’s very hard to keep in my house. Since it very hydroscopic it turns in to a lumps quickly.

[ggpetrov]

I was wondering, if I put it in the hot water phase (90 degrees) - this eventually can brake the bonds between the two monomers, so it will reduce to glucose…or I am wrong?

[ggpetrov]

In my opinion you can go with a glycerine as the only humectant. 5% is a good point, and it will not give a noticeable stickyness. Sodium lactate is good too, but you should consider to not using a synthetic polymers, since it can destroy them.

[ggpetrov]

You cannot reduce the soaping by using fatty alcohols, because they actually boost this effect. The advise to lower the emulsifier is inadequate too. Start with 2-3% Olivem 1000 in the water phase and add 2-3% Olivem 900 as co emulsifier and tickener, and that’s it. You don’t need Cetyl alcohol. Also I can’t imagine how the Olivem 900 will possibly give a waxy feeling. What about water thickener? Which one you are using?

[ggpetrov]

“Albeit it would NEVER use an emulsifier that needs a higher pH to function. I have skin!”

Really? Just look at the INCI decoder, there most of the expensive products are based on Glyceryl stearate SE.

[ggpetrov]

For a home crafting they are perfectly fine! There is a lot of information about the mixing approach, even with those devices. Generally speaking, high shear mixing ( homogenizing) makes more stable and haptically pleasant emulsions, but decrease slightly the viscosity. In contrary, mixing with kitchen equipment creates less stable emulsions with higher viscosity. To obtain a nice and stable emulsion you should homogenize for a minute or two at the beginning, and then switch for a low shear mixing (constantly) untill emulsion cools down completely ( 30 - 35 degrees).

[ggpetrov]

Eventually you can replace the glyceryl mono stearate with the Olivem 900, which is low HLB as well, and you can feel the difference. It’s worth it, believe me 🙂

[ggpetrov]

https://www.hallstarbeauty.com/formula/olivem-1000-crystal-skin/

This is very light

hallstarbeauty.com

Olivem® 1000 Crystal Skin | Hallstar BPC

Olivem® 1000 is a versatile, efficient, olive oil-derived O/W emulsifier that is able to create a soft, elegant nourishing gel when dissolved directly into water. Lightweight yet super-intensive, Olivem® 1000 Crystal Skin penetrates into the skin and is absorbed quickly … Continue reading

[ggpetrov]

Or use just Olivem 1000 as emulsifier/emollient with a bit of Xanthan gum.

[ggpetrov]

I am wondering what is NOT included there ????

[ggpetrov]

I mix constantly during the cool down with a kitchen mixer. The time depends of the temperature. 35 degrees is the temperature that the emulsion is done. Me personally prefer to mix again the emulsion after 8 - 12 hours for 5 to 10 minutes.

You can put Olivem directly in the water phase along with the other ingredients. Just to note, that you have to put the gelling agent after the homogenization.

[ggpetrov]

Recently I was experimenting with the Tara gum as I have it already two years, but I didn’t have much success. Combined with the BTMS 50 or any other emulsifier it gives fantastic emulsions. I am talking about a great spreadability, silky softness, and a light film over the skin but it’s breathable. The trick is that it requires a lot of processing to prevent the snots like texture.

[ggpetrov]

There is nothing wrong with the Olivem 1000. It’s a fantastic emulsifier, and it’s standalone as well. That mean you don’t need a co-emulsifier, just because it already contain it. To make a light and low viscosity emulsion with Olivem 1000 you should try to put it in the water phase, and also to reduce the amount of the fats. Olivem acts as emollient as well, so you definitely don’t need so much oils. Try with 5% Olivem in the water phase, reduce the fats to 10% and homogenize well. Good luck 🙂

[ggpetrov]

I guess you’ve seen a Tara Lee’s video, where she makes a cream gel with Sodium Carbomer and uses an immersion blender? If so, don’t look at her videos. Sodium Carbomer should be added in the cool down phase, around 50-40 degrees, and should be incorporated by mixer ( I use a hand mixer). Homogenisation will break the gel network, for sure.

[ggpetrov]

Your formulation sounds like a nightmare! GS SE is weak when used alone, but it also gives a very pleasant emulsions. I use it a lot in my lotions, but always in combinations. For example GS SE + Ceteareth-25, or GS SE + Emulsan.

[ggpetrov]

There could be a lot of reasons. Olivem 1000 sometimes is a bit tricky, so it’s better to share your formula and workflow to get a proper advices. Also in my experience i’ve never had a sucsessful emulsion when I try to combine ethoxylated and non ethoxylated emulsifiers.

[ggpetrov]

I cannot give you a proper answer of your question, but I use Olivem 1000 in some of my products, and can give you some directions.

* At that level (2-2.5%) you need a proper gelling agent to stabilize the water phase. Me personally prefer to use 0.2% cosmetic grade xanthan + 0.3% Sodium carbomer.

* If you want to get a cream gel texture (without gelling agents) you need to increase the amount of Olivem 1000. The lowest point is 5% the maximum 10%.

* Olivem 1000 is very sensitive to temperature fluctuations. All of the ingredients during the emulsification should have similar temperatures. If not, the emulsion could break. If you need to add something that is not with the same temperature, do it below the 40 degrees.

* If you need to pair Olivem 1000, you can use Oliwax LC or Olivem 900 + Cetyl palmitate. They don’t give the same thickening as Cetyl / Cetearyl alcohol, but the haptical properties of the emulsions are amazing. I am talking about fast absorbing, extremely softening the skin, and no waxiness, no heavy feeling on the skin, compared to Cetyl / Cetearyl.

Hope this could helps 🙂

[ggpetrov]

I like the Sorbitol too. If the presence of electrolytes is not a problem, then you could try Sodium lactate or Sodium PCA.

[ggpetrov]

Aristoflex AVC is a pre-neutralized, which means that it should be processed gently. It can be homogenized for a short time at the lowest speed for better spreadability in the emulsion. You’d better use mixer instead.

[ggpetrov]

Ceteareth-20 is ethoxylated, but it presents in your list. Why?

[ggpetrov]

Manischemicals, Aurorasense, Youmakecosmetics - Greek sites. Glamourcosmetic - Italian. Alexmo cosmetic, Dragonspice - German.

[ggpetrov]

I think this discussion will be meaningless, because it’s a matter of taste rather than to have an objective arguments. About Montanov 202 I think it’s overprized and I can’t see anything special about this emulsifier.
Me personally, prefer to use very basic emulsifiers, which I can buy from anywhere, and also I prefer to make my own blends. 

[ggpetrov]

The type of emulsifiers to which Olivem belongs, require a high shear mixing, also this is needed when you use a natural polymers like xanthan gum. I think the forcing of the cool down is wrong, I think you should give the emulsion a time to cool down naturally. Yes it takes time, but there are factors that require this. The haptics of the emulsion as well as the stability are related with the processing method. The initial homogenizing should be continued with a low shear mixing until cool down. That way the emulsion will get a nice and smooth texture, and also this is important when working with a natural emulsifiers.

Regarding the oil phase, you can keep it off course, but when using butters than the consistency will be thicker. At least with the Olivem. Have you considered to use a mineral oil / petrolatum / more glycerin? Generally speaking you cannot achieve the same result as Lotion Pro with the Olivem. Better try another emulsifier.

[ggpetrov]

Depending of what you are trying to achieve, there are different options to avoid the using of Olivem. It’s expensive, yes. But the haptics of Olivem when it’s used properly are incomparable with the Lotion pro ones. Me personally find it too heavy and waxy on the skin, no matter of the workflow and the fat phase. But that’s my opinion.

[ggpetrov]

Usually the workflow is different. But I can’t imagine why you need a co emulsifier for Olivem 1000 since it’s a stand alone one, and it already contains a fat phase stabilizers. Also you are using a proper gelling agent, aren’t they both sufficient?