evchem2
Forum Replies Created
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Since you’re saying it’s not related to optics/path length, there’s three possible culprits made from the points here:
1. different mix energy (this sounds most obvious, you can try to calculate energy being applied in the small scale and match it in large but not sure how feasible that is for you)
2. raw material variation (not clear if you used the same lot of keratin/ other materials in all your batches so maybe this isn’t an issue. On a related note we once had an issue with a contaminated barrel from a supplier and when we pulled from the bottom with a pump vs syringed off the top made a difference- took way too long to realize there was some residual mystery material in the bottom of the barrel)
3. formula incompatibilities/ chemistry - we don’t know what exactly is in your serum so not sure how much we can help on that front. How is your keratin supplied (solution vs powder? is it functionalized?) -
Titanium Dioxide itself won’t need heat, but you’ll still need to add something to suspend it- synthetic or natural polymers could work. There are other synthetic opacifiers as well, but they may not be favorable for cost/ environmental reasons
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Are you in the US? I see people working on these types of serums constantly, if they were taken to market are they not in violation of L’Oreals current patent?
https://patents.google.com/patent/US20050154054A1/en -
Level of surfactants is low, is this for hand washing clothes? You’ll need more surfactant if you want to salt thicken.
What grade (molecular weight) CMC are you using, and is it for antiredepostion? you could use a higher molecular weight to thicken your fomrulation, but I don’t know what impact (if any) that would have on washing performance
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amodimethicone is supposed to be better for damaged (color-treated) hair, as it can bind to the damaged sites more effectively than uncharged silicones
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You have a very small oil phase, so w/o which is already a difficult system to stabilize is even more unlikely to form because of the high amount of internal (dispersed) phase vs the extremely low continuous phase, on top of the other issues already mentioned.
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You can try deoplex from carrubba for odor masking
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Color cosmetics isn’t my wheelhouse but my thinking is: go the dye route for no tint (lakes if your formula is anhydrous, though I’d be concerned these might have some payoff) - if you are US based check the allowed dyes/lakes for contact with mouth Part 74, Subpart C:
Alternatively look at burts bees or similar commercial product you want to mimic and check what ingredients they are using.
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Haven’t worked on these kinds of products, but my guess is maintaining certain pH range could be important for the dyes used and their stability.
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comments above make sense to me. On an unrelated note, how do you incorporate both xanthan and cationic guar? Are you worried about any long term instability since you have both anionic and cationic polymer in your formulation?
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Better actuators- packaging can influence the spray pattern. Glycerin shouldn’t be separating from a water based serum, you have something else going on
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Carbomer is not a great choice for this kind of system because it will function best (in terms of clarity and viscosity building) at pH closer to neutral. Even the ultrez grade is still not very electrolyte tolerant and you have plenty of salt sources. Check out the lubrizol website or UL prospector if you have access.
Additionally, your preservation system will see huge drop off inefficacy as pH increases. Those salts should really be used for systems where pH is <5.
Your system doesn’t add up to 100% by quite a bit, is there a typo or are you excluding ingredients? Either way if your water phase is really only ~60%, you cannot make a “100%” aloe gel, the aloe can only reconstitute in the available water. There’s also some debate about the labelling (at least in US) if you can really list your INCI as Aloe juice when what you intentionally added is Aloe powder.
So you may want to either choose a new preservative system that works at neutral pH so you can keep carbomer- you’ll still likely need excess because of the aloe, or a different rheology modifier (xanthan gum for example, the grade you get will impact the final appearance greatly but it can handle lower pH and salt)
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What pH is your formulation at?
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At 5.5 sodium benzoate is mostly in the salt form which is ineffective as a preservative. Agree with other comments on that you need to switch to a different preservation strategy.
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Bar Gel G from Barnet Products (INCI:
Polyglyceryl-10 tristearate) works to some extent, but I’m not sure if they still carry that product.
Kelco-Care from CP Kelco/Lubrizol (INCI: Sphingomonas ferment extract) will also work, though without heat it may take a day or two to see full hydration.
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I would say the only possible concern is maybe micro count, sometimes the food spec is higher since the products generally have shorter shelf life
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I don’t know what specific grades of xg and HEC you’re using but they could be contributing to pilling (esp in combination with the starch and silica), can I ask why you’re using all 4?
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I agree with what’s already been said- I also think you could drop the coconut oil to just claims level (0.01%), it’s not functional for your formula and will just make it harder to have clarity, require higher usage level of PEG-40… based on that benchmark I’d say your 1% line is right after the VP/VA
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We had a storage tank inline from our filtration/purification system- I’m not sure how storing in the production tank would work. You would probably want to validate you are able to totally disinfect the tank, maybe let some water sit in the tank for your worst-case timeline and test? I can see it being very demanding if you go that route so the second tank may end up being less costly in terms of time/ liability.
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I’d opt for liquid germall for preservation, but use level might be closer to 0.5%. Which form of vitamin E are you using? If it’s tocopheryl acetate it’s pointless and you should switch to tocopherol or eliminate entirely
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EGMS is also used for pearlizing, you may be able to get opacity from the fatty alcohols you have currently but not pearl.
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i couldn’t find anything comparing different acids but some suppliers have charts like you’re describing for their individual preservatives
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HDPE is high density polyethylene, it is polyethylene but has different properties than lower density
https://sciencing.com/differences-hdpe-plastic-polyethylene-plastic-6807965.html
https://omicoplastics.com/blog/ldpe-hdpe-similarities-and-differences/ -
Is it very thick? Sea moss could be improperly labeled carrageenan which would not act as an emulsifier but maybe it could stabilize the system enough if the oil content is low. But agree with the others, they could just have left out the emulsifier altogether from the LOI
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@Anca_Formulator i see thanks for clarifying. I’ve never used the paddle culture, but isn’t it the same issue? The paddle’s been exposed to air for the past 3 months? Even if the kit is not expired once you’ve exposed it I think the most reliable results are probably the ones after the ~120 hours/whatever the paddle supplier recommends.