Home Cosmetic Science Talk Formulating Hair Effect of EGMS on deposition of amodimethicone from shampoo with cationic guar

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  • Effect of EGMS on deposition of amodimethicone from shampoo with cationic guar

    Posted by Abdullah on October 22, 2022 at 7:41 am

    This shampoo formula A

    All ingredients in active percentage

    SLES 7% 
    CAPB 1% 
    Xanthan gum 0.2% 
    Cationic guar 0.1% 
    Amodimethicone 0.12% 
    NACL
    Water 
    Preservative 
    pH 5
    Viscosity ~5k cst 

    Formula B has same ingredients with extra 0.6% EGMS as pearlizer.

    10 people have used these samples and all of them including me felt that the conditioning effect of both samples are different. Except me no one knew what is inside each formula.

    Mostly men liked the conditioning effect from formula A while women liked formula B more. I felt that from formula A more amodimethicone was deposited in hair and EGMS reduced the deposition of amodimethicone. But it was just my feeling from when the hair was dry.

    From this experiment i am convinced that EGMS effects the conditioning properties at least in formula like this. 

    My questions
    1. Does EGMS effect the conditioning properties of shampoo or some shampoo formulas like this or it is just our imagination?
    2. When a shampoo has cationic guar and amodimethicone, does EGMS reduce or increase the deposition of amodimethicone or it has no effect on deposition of amodimethicone or dimethicone?

    Abdullah replied 1 year, 7 months ago 3 Members · 4 Replies
  • 4 Replies
  • ketchito

    Member
    October 24, 2022 at 11:49 am

    @Abdullah 10 people seems like a small number to draw conclusions, especially if part of the group liked formula A, and the other part liked formula B. You could even find this happening if you ask them to evaluate the same formula but with different codes. Are they trained panelists? (trained panelists are constantly trained, evaluated and even “calibrated”).

    Some shampoo bars use Stearic acid which can actually deposit on hair in small amounts (I’ve seen that even with fabric softeners), so theoretically it could happen that your stearate is occupying a place where Amodimethicone was supposed to take. Nevertheless, in shampoos, EGMS is already in solid form (flat sheets of EGMS suspended in the product when used as a pearlizer), which reduced it’s chances of deposition.

  • evchem2

    Member
    October 24, 2022 at 1:10 pm

    comments above make sense to me. On an unrelated note, how do you incorporate both xanthan and cationic guar? Are you worried about any long term instability since you have both anionic and cationic polymer in your formulation?

  • Abdullah

    Member
    October 25, 2022 at 1:32 am

    ketchito said:

    @Abdullah 10 people seems like a small number to draw conclusions, especially if part of the group liked formula A, and the other part liked formula B. You could even find this happening if you ask them to evaluate the same formula but with different codes. Are they trained panelists? (trained panelists are constantly trained, evaluated and even “calibrated”).

    Some shampoo bars use Stearic acid which can actually deposit on hair in small amounts (I’ve seen that even with fabric softeners), so theoretically it could happen that your stearate is occupying a place where Amodimethicone was supposed to take. Nevertheless, in shampoos, EGMS is already in solid form (flat sheets of EGMS suspended in the product when used as a pearlizer), which reduced it’s chances of deposition.

    Thanks
    Yes the number is small and not reliable but that is what i can do right now. 

  • Abdullah

    Member
    October 25, 2022 at 1:35 am

    evchem2 said:

    comments above make sense to me. On an unrelated note, how do you incorporate both xanthan and cationic guar? Are you worried about any long term instability since you have both anionic and cationic polymer in your formulation?

    I have samples from more than a year ago with no problem.  

    I add guar first and xanthan last before NACL. 

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