evchem2
Forum Replies Created
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Is your process the same from initial to scale up (ex same mixing blade types, scaled heating/cooling rates)? Are you using different raw material lots? Are you evaluating the initial vs scale up samples in the same kind of container, under the same kind of light?
If you believe the mixing isn’t thorough enough, can you remix for longer time and see if color improves?
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Hi @Perry44 , I think this post is missing a link to the webinar? I’m not able to see it
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@jonathan02 to answer your questions:
1. Can you add a colorant? Sure if it is approved for your region. In the US colorants must be from a list approved by the FDA (https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetic-ingredient-names/color-additives-permitted-use-cosmetics ). If I were you I would look for other colored hair waxes on the market in your region to get an idea of what is already out there.
2. I would not remove the antioxidant completely if you have any oils with unsaturated chains
3. 0.5% mixed tocopherols seems high, you could try 0.25% and see if the color/scent/overall attributes of your formula stay in good shape.
@reynard, do you have a source showing tocopheryl acetate has the same antioxidant potential as mixed tocopherols? Everything I’ve ever read is that the acetate form is not a strong antioxidant, and chemically it makes sense as the acetate group has to be removed somehow before you can get AO potential
fda.gov
Color Additives Permitted for Use in Cosmetics
Table of color additives permitted for use in cosmetics provided as a quick reference to help in determining which color additives may be used in different types of cosmetics.
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Hi! Lots of possible explanations for seeing different viscosity. The formulation itself (kinds of ingredients used, type of emulsion)- are your raw materials from the exact same lot as previous batches or different? Did you scale up at all? Did you cool at a different rate?
Then there’s the measurement method itself-how are you measuring viscosity (the equipment type and the temperature, time, spindle geometry)? How different is the viscosity from your previous batches? For example a few hundred cPs is likely not cause for concern, but several thousand? might want to monitor and assess if your product looks/performs any differently than expected. If this is a new formulation its common to keep a broader viscosity range specification until you have made several production batches (say 10 +) to get an idea of your normal batch to batch variation (and what is not normal)
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Is this your order of addition? I’d suggest getting the xanthan in earlier, right before or after the carbopol addition. You also have PQ-10 and combining cationic polymers with anioinics can cause precipitation/opacity. Also what is your final pH?
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How low in pH are you targeting?
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I’m no preservation expert, but both products also have the multifunctional caprylyl glycol which should help with preservation somewhat. Also I seriously doubt the aloe/oat content is significant in either product, and the raw materials may be held to strict specifications on incoming micro count. There are also preservatives that can fall under the “fragrance” INCI like p-anisic acid in the moisture cream.
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If you search in this forum for bloom/blooming, you can see this problem has been discussed a few times here.
https://chemistscorner.com/cosmeticsciencetalk/discussion/bloom-testing/
chemistscorner.com
Bloom Testing - Chemists Corner
Hi all,I'm working on a lip balm (going into a tube, not a stick, but is anhydrous) and my customer asked if I've done bloom…
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When you say cushy/cushiony are you referring to the way the product itself feels or how it makes your hair feel? You should be able to use salt to thicken this formula as well, and maybe the addition of a cationic guar could help with some of the feeling on hair.
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You are using Potassium Cocoate which is a true soap (carboxylate). These kinds of surfactants need to remain at alkaline pH (close to 9-10) otherwise you protonate the carboxylic acid group and your material can become insoluble. So my guess is the pH was brought down too far and you lost the solubility (and performance) of that surfactant
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When using a solubilizer ( the polysorbate) for fragrance, a general recommendation is to use 3-5x of that compared to your fragrance. Are you premixing the polysorbate and fragrance before adding as well?
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the INCI name I see for colloidal oatmeal is Avena Sativa (Oat) Kernel Flour . The difference between OTC and cosmetics really comes down to intended use. See FDAs page on this: https://www.fda.gov/cosmetics/cosmetics-laws-regulations/it-cosmetic-drug-or-both-or-it-soap
and their definitions of cosmetics vs drugs.
If you want to include colloidal oatmeal in a cosmetic, you cannot claim to treat or prevent any disease. Colloidal oatmeal is a registered OTC active for skin protectant claims, so if you make that claim on your product (or even if it is strongly implied, the FDA also considers consumers understanding vs companies explicit descriptions) the FDA could determine your product is a drug and needs to go through proper process. Take a look at commercial products with OTC claims (ex Aveeno Baby Ezcema Therapy ) vs cosmetic claims (ex Aveeno Calm + Restore Facial Moisturizer for Sensitive Skin). Skin dryness is a fine line for claims and I’m not a regulatory expert, but some level of moisturization/hydration related claims seem to be fine, it’s the prevention or disease mitigation that veers away from cosmetic territory.
fda.gov
Is It a Cosmetic, a Drug, or Both? (Or Is It Soap?)
An overview of the legal differences between cosmetics and drugs, and whether a cosmetic can be both or just a soap.
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Is this from an indie brand or a large multinational? Do they make any claims about efficacy/ skin improvement? What I’m getting at is just because they put it in the formula does not mean they ensured retinol stability/performance
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What’s the pH of your formula? How do you incorporate the PQ 10? If you make the formula with everything but PQ 10 do you still see the separation? Lastly, can you explain why are you including 20%? glycerin?
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Not a haircare formulator, but here’s my thoughts:
1. The ‘mechanism’ as far as I know is alcohol or starches absorbing oil/sebum and giving hair a more matte appearance.
2. Anyone who would like to skip washing their hair occasionally. If you’re asking about target demographic probably younger women with long hair
3. I’m not sure on this, I think a spray would likely get more uniform widespread coverage but probably comes down to the specific packaging/formula.
4. You should take a look at big brands that are in this space and read their ingredient labels. You can also look at amazon/ulta/sephora top sellers online.
https://www.pantene.co.uk/en-gb/hair-tips/hair-care/how-does-dry-shampoo-work/
pantene.co.uk
Ever wondered how dry shampoo works? Now you don't have to! Discover how dry shampoo transforms locks from greasy to great in no time with Pantene's advice.
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Is there a benchmark product that has some attributes you’d like to replicate or build on? I’d start by looking at what’s already in the market and what ingredients those products contain. You will start to notice if there are commonalities and researching what functions the ingredients can have will help you start to plan your own formulation.
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Might be related to the combination of anionic surfactant with cationic surfactant from the amodimethicone emulsion
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If your pH is going to be 7-8 I don’t believe potassium sorbate will be effective as a preservative (see intro of this paper for a quick explanation of how organic acid preservatives and their salts work). This would also apply to the acids in your verstatil and microcare blends. You should look for alternative methods of preservation such as CMIT/MIT blends, maybe phenoxyethanol/ethylhexylglycerin, or others. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4178694/
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Sorbic acid and acetic acid are among the weak organic acid preservatives most commonly used to improve the microbiological stability of foods. They have similar pK[a] values, but sorbic acid is a far more potent preservative. Weak organic acids are … Continue reading
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I think allantoin could be a potential crystallizer here, but also the PBSA. I haven’t worked with it commercially but I believe product pH needs to be right around neutral for PBSA to remain soluble.
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What’s the final application? Might be able to use PVP, maybe a carbomer, diutan gum will definitely work but might require some heat/shear
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The thickeners you have available are almost all “shear thinning” in behavior (not sure on the Crothix behavior but might be similar based on your perception )- also called pseudoplastic. It means when you scrub the product into your hair and apply more force, the formula gets thinner. At high levels each of those polymers might not shear thin as much, but as you noted they might start to feel too heavy/glue-like. Salt-thickened surfactant systems have more newtonian behavior- they flow about the same regardless on force you use. That might be the ‘cushiony’ profile you are used to in retail products.
As for how much salt to use, I’d suggest setting up a salt curve- Perry has a good explanation here (https://chemistscorner.com/salt-curve-analysis-how-to-control-cleansing-cosmetics/)
Since you don’t have a way to measure viscosity, just follow the first steps and keep small samples of you batch- one with no salt and a few with various levels, ex 0.2,0.5,1.0,2.0% . You can check those the next day or after a few hours and see which level works best for your system.
chemistscorner.com
Salt Curve Analysis - How to control cleansing cosmetics - Chemists Corner
When you formulate an anionic surfactant based cleansing formula, you don’t normally have to include a separate thickening system. This is because salt will thicken…
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Solabia has a formulation using Fucogel powder in the water phase (pre emulsification) and heating to 75C. I don’t see a reason why you couldn’t add it post emulsification as well if you properly dispersed it.
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You can check out some of the contacts here:
chemistscorner.com
Need formulating services? Here are some contacts - Chemists Corner
****This discussion is for listing your services only. Requests for services should be made in our Opportunities/Requests category. Non-applicable comments will be removed***We get a…
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Traditional: depends on your preference but some of the classics are PEG-100 Stearate & Glyceryl Stearate combo (trade name Arlacel 165, amongst others), or Cetearyl Alcohol & Polysorbate 60 (Emulsifying wax). If ethoxylates are undesirable some other popular options are from the montanov series from Seppic (ex Montanov 68 Cetearyl Alcohol & Cetearyl Glucoside)
Polymeric: something from the Pemulen series from Lubrizol (Acrylates/ C10-30 Alkyl Acrylate Crosspolymer). The also have a more ‘natural’ oriented Pemupur Start, though I haven’t used it myself.
Some combinations are more or less preferred depending on the final desired appearance/feel of the product, availability, cost, etc. There are plenty of threads in this forum that also mention some popular choices. @chemicalmatt is an industry vet, you can also go the route he suggested and saponify.
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Polysorbate 80 is more often used for solubilizing when you have a low percentage of oil (~<1%). To try and use it with 10% of a fatty acid, I imagine you would need to use quite a bit (the general recommendation is 3-4x the oil level) and it will feel sticky/unpleasant. I’d stick with a more traditional emulsifier (but then you might have to move to hot process), or maybe replace HEC with a polymeric emulsifier (I don’t know if your active would cause any problems with one of those)