[drjaysee]

drjayseesunish said:

Paprik said:

drjayseesunish said:

Paprik said:

BTMS-50 is a surfactant (emulsifier) and Guar Hydroxypropyltrimoniumchloride is a gum. It is always a good practise to include gum in your formulas for better stability. As HPTM is positively charged it is also beneficial. So yeah, no problem there  

PS. no point would be adding 2 surfactants, such as BTMS with Cetrimonium Chloride or your mentioned Steartrimonium Chloride.

@Paprik can I use bhms 50 in making skin moisturizer lotion? As you said it is surfactant. 

It is a surfactant, however cationic one. Therefore it is not really suitable for hydrating products. 
For standard emulsions you should use anionic and non-ionic ingredients (leave cationic ones for hair care).

@Paprik thank you!

@Paprik , Is it suitable for formulation of hair mask, a leave on product? Or we can use only in hair shampoo?

[drjaysee]

Paprik said:

drjayseesunish said:

Paprik said:

BTMS-50 is a surfactant (emulsifier) and Guar Hydroxypropyltrimoniumchloride is a gum. It is always a good practise to include gum in your formulas for better stability. As HPTM is positively charged it is also beneficial. So yeah, no problem there  

PS. no point would be adding 2 surfactants, such as BTMS with Cetrimonium Chloride or your mentioned Steartrimonium Chloride.

@Paprik can I use bhms 50 in making skin moisturizer lotion? As you said it is surfactant. 

It is a surfactant, however cationic one. Therefore it is not really suitable for hydrating products. 
For standard emulsions you should use anionic and non-ionic ingredients (leave cationic ones for hair care).

@Paprik thank you!

[drjaysee]

drjayseesunish said:

Paprik said:

BTMS-50 is a surfactant (emulsifier) and Guar Hydroxypropyltrimoniumchloride is a gum. It is always a good practise to include gum in your formulas for better stability. As HPTM is positively charged it is also beneficial. So yeah, no problem there  

PS. no point would be adding 2 surfactants, such as BTMS with Cetrimonium Chloride or your mentioned Steartrimonium Chloride.

@Paprik can I use bhms 50 in making skin moisturizer lotion? As you said it is surfactant. 

@Paprik can you explain the stearic acid , cetyl alcohal and cetearyl alcohal use in skin lotion formulation? All fatty acid and alcohal but what are standard use and conditions for it?

[drjaysee]

Paprik said:

BTMS-50 is a surfactant (emulsifier) and Guar Hydroxypropyltrimoniumchloride is a gum. It is always a good practise to include gum in your formulas for better stability. As HPTM is positively charged it is also beneficial. So yeah, no problem there  

PS. no point would be adding 2 surfactants, such as BTMS with Cetrimonium Chloride or your mentioned Steartrimonium Chloride.

@Paprik can I use bhms 50 in making skin moisturizer lotion? As you said it is surfactant. 

[drjaysee]

ketchito said:

drjayseesunish said:

drjayseesunish said:

ketchito said:

Robert said:

@Abdullah @ketchito 
Do not you think that anionic surfactants lower than 9% as an active material is un acceptable as a shampoo?
Also 1501 will definitely separated, 
as a suggestion i am adding cetrimonium chloride combined with SLES in the shampoo some how is good on hair but not perfect, I am disappointed with shampoos becuase I tried everything to make shampoo for soft and smooth effect on hair but all the time failed

waiting any suggestion

@Robert You just need to add a cationic polymer and silicone(s) to your shampoo, and play around the percentages till you get the effect you want. 

@ketchito playing percentages meaning repetitive experimentation, am I right? But can’t understand you all are well known formulator so is it difficult for you too to fix one’s %?

@ketchito please tell me a universal polymers to thicken  cleaning products? 

HEC and HMPC are good options.

@ketchito Thanks! After comparing HECand CMC, I came to know CMC sodium salt is good option as soluble in hot and cold medium easily but it didn’t give much thickening to my liquid detergent as I expected. 

[drjaysee]

drjayseesunish said:

ketchito said:

Robert said:

@Abdullah @ketchito 
Do not you think that anionic surfactants lower than 9% as an active material is un acceptable as a shampoo?
Also 1501 will definitely separated, 
as a suggestion i am adding cetrimonium chloride combined with SLES in the shampoo some how is good on hair but not perfect, I am disappointed with shampoos becuase I tried everything to make shampoo for soft and smooth effect on hair but all the time failed

waiting any suggestion

@Robert You just need to add a cationic polymer and silicone(s) to your shampoo, and play around the percentages till you get the effect you want. 

@ketchito playing percentages meaning repetitive experimentation, am I right? But can’t understand you all are well known formulator so is it difficult for you too to fix one’s %?

@ketchito please tell me a universal polymers to thicken  cleaning products? 

[drjaysee]

ketchito said:

Robert said:

@Abdullah @ketchito 
Do not you think that anionic surfactants lower than 9% as an active material is un acceptable as a shampoo?
Also 1501 will definitely separated, 
as a suggestion i am adding cetrimonium chloride combined with SLES in the shampoo some how is good on hair but not perfect, I am disappointed with shampoos becuase I tried everything to make shampoo for soft and smooth effect on hair but all the time failed

waiting any suggestion

@Robert You just need to add a cationic polymer and silicone(s) to your shampoo, and play around the percentages till you get the effect you want. 

@ketchito playing percentages meaning repetitive experimentation, am I right? But can’t understand you all are well known formulator so is it difficult for you too to fix one’s %?

[drjaysee]

PhilGeis said:

EDTA not enough.
The enzymes are microbial - not what’s in our bodies.  The issue is inhalation in manufacturing and it is serious.

Thanks. 

[drjaysee]

Graillotion said:

No one can help…without percentages.

That would be like asking advice for concrete…without listing the percentages of the things you used.

@Graillotion I agree with you. But concrete anything we need to know the material first then the quantity. If ingredients not correct then quantity doesn’t matter. 
Is the ingredients of recipe correct?Grail ???? 

[drjaysee]

PhilGeis said:

You need a preservative.
Suggest you not play with enzymes.  The risk for immune response and anaphylaxis is real.  Major companies test their plant workers frequently and will reassign those showing allergic response.

 @PhilGeis informative! But except cellulase, others enzymes found in our human body necessary for digestion so how these enzymes present in detergent, have a impact in our system as we are not ingesting it, these  present in a rinse off products. 

PhilGeis  I want to know EDTA not good enough for preservative ? Or other should be add on? Any other suggestions?  Please..

[drjaysee]

Syl said:

You should test it on yourself…. 

@Syl I agreed, sometimes rinse hair with lemon water ( natural way)gives the exact impact of conditioner ; smooth untangle shine there in hair.

[drjaysee]

Abdullah said:

Syl said:

I personally like a PH of 5 or less because hair cuticules are smoother at that pH preventing tangles.

When you rinse with water that has pH 7, it doesn’t matter anymore what was the pH before rinsing. 

@Abdullah I think , a lower or higher ph whatever give the impact on skin or hair, can’t be affected by the water with ph7 because neutral can’t change the ph else no change their impact too.

[drjaysee]

MarkBroussard said:

@drjayseesunish

Viscosity can be affected by pH.  It’s all a function of how the surfactants interact with each other, but you can get some increase in viscosity by lowering the pH of certain surfactant combinations.  i don’t think there is a general rule in this regard.  You just need to test it.

Viscosity by salt will only work with certain surfactants or sufactant combinations.  Non-Ionic surfactants will not salt thicken.  Whereas anionic taurates generally respond well to salt-thickening.  Again, as with pH, you need to experiment to see if you get thickening of a surfactant mixture by lowering the pH and/or adding salt.

@MarkBroussard thanks a lot Mark. I am learning everytime when you all knowledge rich persons give the solution and the same time make us think in another aspect. 

[drjaysee]

Abdullah said:

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

@Abdullah I have  found out when I add EDTA in the solution, solution becomes thinner so when should we add it in the solution? 

[drjaysee]

Perry said:

It’s logically not possible to exceed 100% 

@Perry yes ,agreed 

[drjaysee]

Abdullah said:

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

@Abdullah when should we add EDTA in the solution, before neturalisation or after it? Any particular time or step? In detergent case. 

[drjaysee]

MarkBroussard said:

If the total percentage of a formula exceeds 100%, then you made a math error in calculating the total.

Got it.

[drjaysee]

Pharma said:

drjayseesunish said:

???? I  am from the country where all advancement there but we can not googled our failures and success from there dear. Thanks for your help. My question is ph of solution to which I am going to  add salt, change the viscosity as sometimes I get viscosity and sometimes not with same ingredients. 

In that case, read a book such as ‘Surfactant Science, Principles & Practice’ by Steven Abbott (free PDF download online available on his HP).

@Pharma thanks 

[drjaysee]

ketchito said:

drjayseesunish said:

Can Anyone tell me is viscosity based on the  ph of any solution? Sometimes when I  make handwash, I didn’t get desired viscosity through salt.  So anyone can tell me required things to get  the viscosity by salt.

drjayseesunish said:

Can Anyone tell me is viscosity based on the  ph of any solution? Sometimes when I  make handwash, I didn’t get desired viscosity through salt.  So anyone can tell me required things to get  the viscosity by salt.

@drjayseesunish This is just an example, but if you have both SLES and CAPB, different pH will modify the way they interact with each other, thus modifying the resulting viscosity.

@ketchito thanks 

[drjaysee]

Abdullah said:

A lot of things in handwash can effect viscosity including pH. So do some experiments. 

@Abdullah thanks 

[drjaysee]

Pharma said:

No, adding salt is not about changing pH (table salt doesn’t even change pH).

I assume you’re living in a country not served by Google (or completely lack own initiative); so HERE you go.

???? I  am from the country where all advancement there but we can not googled our failures and success from there dear. Thanks for your help. My question is ph of solution to which I am going to  add salt, change the viscosity as sometimes I get viscosity and sometimes not with same ingredients. 

[drjaysee]

drjayseesunish said:

ketchito said:

@saeedulfat The problem, as @Paprik mentioned, is that you might be oversalting your product. Ionic surfactants have a salt curve, which means, they increase in viscosity as you add salt, reaching a maximum, and then falling down. Some systems have more than one peak. I’d make a salt curve of your systems to know if you’re oversalting it or not.

@ketchito you said salt curve so if salt amount, goes beyond the peak of viscosity and then viscosity fall down so how to regain the viscosity? Is there any ingredient to regain the viscosity or throw whatever made. Another thing how to measure that particular amount of salt that goes to maximum viscosity. Sometimes we continuously adding salt to get more and more viscosity and the result , whatever viscosity was there, we lost that too????

@ketchito adding less or excess of salt alter the viscosity. This salt depand viscosity depand on salt curve but if we want to get viscosity with other polymers then, is there same danger? Any curve related issues? Or less and excess do not alter viscosity  a lot.
If not any issues then which polymers best for liquid detergents or wash products? 

[drjaysee]

MarkBroussard said:

@esthetician922

You can’t … you must disclose every single ingredient in the product regardless of how little you use.  The only work-around is if you apply to the FDA for a trade secret, but you must have a valid reason for requesting the trade secret and the chances of you receiving one are very, very slim.  

@MarkBroussard    But I have seen some brand , they do not disclose as a brand name BIOTIQUE, that produce all kind of hair, skin products. A label of face wash showing only some herbal extract in% and rest water only and everyone knew only water can’t make any face wash product. BIOTIQUE is very popular brand name in natural products( as they claim). Another well known name is Arial; developed by P&G.  Its liquid detergent not mentioning single ingredient except instructions to use it.
So why they didn’t do this? 

[drjaysee]

ketchito said:

@drjayseesunish I’d add first the CAPB alone to the main batch, almost at the end, and then, I’d premix fragrance with CDEA and add it to the main batch. See how it works.

@ketchito ok thanks a lot????

[drjaysee]

Pb610 said:

I’ve been losing some hair due to stress and have been trying different things. Oils are indeed useless, burying your scalp with oils, creams etc multiple times a day is only going to clog up the skin and prevent it from naturally shedding, leading to really bad dandruff.

Perrigo’s 5% liquid minoxidil (sold under various brands such as Kirkland, equate, Amazon basic care.. 

https://www.minoxidilmax.com/products

@ thanks a lot