[DaveStone]

emma1985 said:

The monk is 30 years older than the Native American woman. Wear sunscreen folks. If you don’t care about visible aging, wear it to protect your skin from skin cancer, which, contrary to popular belief, can be fatal!!

Good lord…I thought the image on the right was a rock sculpture.

[DaveStone]

MarkBroussard said:

Wrinkles are Nature’s way of letting you know that it is time for you to stop breeding.

Tell that to Mick Jagger.

[DaveStone]

Paprik said:

 
Funny you mentioned cutting your wrinkles. Microneedling does kind of the same thing. You just don’t cause any “serious” damage, that could leave scars. You basically damage the skin, so the body responds to it and starts to heal it - builds collagen, elastin, fibroblasts …. 

How come microneedling isn’t foolproof then?

But getting back to the original question…would a cut over a wrinkle conceivably get rid of it? I would assume all the tissue in that spot would be regenerated.

[DaveStone]

Pharma said:

Imagine you were to park your car outside in a hailstorm and get dents all over it… does the dilated metal sheets tighten back when you apply a cream or lotion or do the dents simply fill up to be less visible?

That analogy doesn’t work because a car isn’t a living organism. Even broken bones heal.

[DaveStone]

Graillotion said:

Zen is the most forgiving of the polymerics.  You could sure give that a try with the sodium lactate.  (Since your inclusion rate is moderately low.)

I have not worked with the MC product, but they do state it has some sodium tolerance.

I believe HEC is used as a last resort, for difficult formulas….not a ‘go to’ for elegance.

What do you mean by “elegance”? Are you saying HEC may cause an undesirable skin feel?

[DaveStone]

What about this?

https://lotioncrafter.com/products/sodium-carbomer-preneutralized-carbomer

[DaveStone]

Graillotion said:

Any of the gums, HEC or HPC

Sodium lactate will eliminate most of the elegant polymerics, as it is an electrolyte.  I would certainly evaluate the need of Sodium lactate (and sub it out)…so I could use the elegant gelling agents.

If urea was used in its place, could the other gelling agents be used?

[DaveStone]

MarkBroussard said:

This is like reading the script of the next Borat movie

I wish there was a way to upvote this.

[DaveStone]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ics.12737

Scalp application of the antioxidant
piroctone olamine reduces hair shedding in an 8-week randomized,
double-blind, placebo-controlled clinical study

[DaveStone]

https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1111/ics.12734

“The novel topical technology evaluated was complex, requiring the development of a new formulation. Each functional material was selected for its known effects on skin and scalp. With the principle components of zinc pyrithione, piroctone olamine and zinc carbonate, the aim was to improve the skin barrier function and mitigate oxidative stress. Since oxidative stress can originate from multiple sources, we sought anti-oxidant materials that could function by multiple mechanisms. Specifically, zinc has antioxidant properties [31]. Piroctone olamine is an iron chelator [32], and iron chelation has been shown to reduce oxidative stress in skin by preventing formation of iron-catalysed oxygen radicals [33, 34]. Piroctone olamine and zinc pyrithione are known anti-Malassezia agents [35]. Zinc carbonate potentiates the effects of zinc pyrithione [36]. In addition to these primary materials, secondary anti-oxidants and barrier improvement materials were also included. Niacinamide [37] and caffeine [38] both have antioxidant properties. Both niacinamide [37] and panthenol [39] improve skin hydration and skin barrier, thus reducing the tissue stress associated with poor barrier. As effective as these materials are intrinsically, effective scalp delivery vehicles were developed to enable the realization of these activities.”

There’s also a chart showing how much of each is ingredient is added. Leave-on products had more niacinimide than anything, followed by caffeine. The shampoo had more of the zinc compounds than anything.

[DaveStone]

@Abdullah

The sun does have few other alleged benefits but they aren’t for skin, and the sunlight need not be direct. For example, sunlight helps regulate circadian rhythm. That may have something to do with the indoor/outdoor energy thing you experience.

Sunscreen, or maybe Sunblock, does protect your skin from UVA. Provided that it is a broad-spectrum sunscreen. Like Perry said, some UV still gets through but probably not a damaging amount.

[DaveStone]

Abdullah said:

@Perry isn’t it simple. No exposure to sun, no vitamin D from sun. 

As much as i know black people have better skin than white people and black people expose their skin more to sun than white people.

Vitamin D doesn’t have to come from the sun. You can get it through a multivitamin or fortified foods as Perry said. Even milk has some Vitamin D.

I’ve read that Vitamin D can’t pass through windows. You have to be outside to get it, and many people don’t have the opportunity to do that regularly. People likely got a lot more Vitamin D 100 years ago.

Black people have better skin supposedly because of their higher melanin. It better protects against photodamage. Although lines/wrinkles/spots are only one part of skin aging. Sagging is the other…and that has to do with collagen and elastin loss. Melanin isn’t related to that, at least I don’t think. This article explains it pretty well: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4756870/

[DaveStone]

Perry said:

Sun damage is not a myth. Just look at the skin of people from Arizona or Florida vs people from Minnesota. If you’re not from the US these are sections of the country that are sunny (Arizona / Florida) and less sunny (Minnesota). People in sunny places have “leathery” looking skin in my opinion.

So, if you care about having skin that doesn’t look aged or weathered, wear sunscreen. Theoretically, sunscreen use should also protect against skin cancer. However, the data on this is much less convincing. 

Sunscreens are not regularly added to moisturizers because it would make formulas more expensive without providing a benefit companies could claim. Also, the ingredients are drug actives (at least in the US). 

Never been to Florida or Arizona, but I have been to Southern California. I hadn’t noticed anything different about people’s skin other than that it was tanner. If I looked closer, I’d probably see more wrinkles. Tanning is bad for the skin. I always hated when someone would tell me to “get some color”. I would tell them I’d rather look like Casper than the Cryptkeeper.

I didn’t mean that sun damage in general was a myth…just damage when out of direct sunlight. But that article helped clear it up.

[DaveStone]

jemolian said:

SHOULD YOU WEAR SUNSCREEN INDOORS? THE SCIENCE (WITH VIDEO)

How many of you use a sunscreen product on a regular basis?

When i’m out for long periods of time under the sun. I normally don’t sit near windows indoors. 

why aren’t all moisturizers made with sunscreen ingredients?

Because it requires validation of SPF values since they are regulated as drugs / claims. Formulating and validation is an expensive process. 

Thanks. That article was very informative.

[DaveStone]

I haven’t used sultaine at high levels but CAPB at high level can cause skin to become dry and then very oily in reaction. 

The Dove bar has CAPB though I don’t know how much.

Sodium Lauroyl Isethionate, Stearic Acid, Lauric Acid, Sodium Oleate, Water (Eau), Sodium Isethionate, Sodium Stearate, Cocamidopropyl Betaine, Fragrance (Parfum), Sodium Laurate, Tetrasodium Etidronate, Tetrasodium EDTA, Sodium Chloride, Kaolin or (ou) Titanium Dioxide.

[DaveStone]

This leads me to another question…can skin ever be over-hydrated? Say you used a blend of 50% water and 50% hyaluronic acid (which already has the best water-holding capacity) with a 100% occlusive. Could that be too much water for skin to take?

[DaveStone]

vitalys said:

@DaveStone Dry skin and dehydrated skin conditions are not interchangeable meanings. Dehydrated skin - is water deficiency ( when skin is losing its ability to retain water) while dry skin is a sign of the decreased or abnormal lipid synthesis in the skin. TEWL takes place in both conditions. 
If your moisturizers and occlusive preparations are obviously useless, it might be the dry skin condition. There are plenty of methods to maintain the lipid content and production in the epidermis. Light acid peels and Nicotinamide, for instance, show good results. 
Be careful with Tretinoin. I would use it only after the consultation with a dermatologist. 

I don’t know how to classify my skin condition. I don’t have flakes/peeling so it’s not dry in that sense.

I haven’t tried acid peels but will give them a shot. Is mandelic acid any good? There’s so many acids out there now. Niacinimide is in my tonic, around 3%.

[DaveStone]

Abdullah said:

tretinoin may make it dry. 

One reason can be lipid loss. 

One reason can be a disease.

One reason can be your mild cleanser. What are the ingredients of this?

Try to use low pH moisturizer and products. pH 4 or below.

The cleanser I’ve been using lately is Cerave: Aqua / Water / Eau, Cocamidopropyl Hydroxysultaine, Glycerin, Sodium
Lauroyl Sarcosinate, Peg-150 Pentaerythrityl Tetrastearate, Niacinamide,
Peg-6 Caprylic/Capric Glycerides, Sodium Methyl Cocoyl Taurate,
Propylene Glycol, Ceramide NP, Ceramide AP, Ceramide EOP, Carbomer,
Methylparaben, Sodium Chloride, Sodium Lauroyl Lactylate, Cholesterol,
Disodium EDTA, Propylparaben, Citric Acid, Tetrasodium EDTA, Hydrolyzed
Hyaluronic Acid, Phytosphingosine, Xanthan Gum.

Before that I used Dove Beauty Bar, which is what I use on the rest of my body. The PH of that is apparently 7. I read some online sources that claim Cerave’s PH is 5.5.

[DaveStone]

Perry said:

I’m not sure it has been determined that cell turnover results from any type of skin irritation, but it seems reasonable. 

People say around here that even soap irritates the skin. So maybe it’s good for once a week usage. Clay masks also irritate the skin and some people swear by them.

[DaveStone]

What about injection of brown adipose tissue?

[DaveStone]

Perry said:

It seems some positive data is available, but not overwhelmingly convincing.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S1748681517302504

The authors conclude “ The current literature does show some methodological shortcomings, and further research is required to truly establish microneedling as an evidence-based therapeutic option for treating scars, wrinkles and other skin conditions.“

On that note, wouldn’t anything that irritates the skin also have to stimulate turnover?

[DaveStone]

PhilGeis said:

None  sterilizes and you don’t need sterility.  You probably don’t need to use any - are the bottles clean?

The bottles are visibly clean. They were sitting in dish soap water for around 30 min and afterward left to dry upsidedown.

[DaveStone]

MarkBroussard said:

Yes, Perry … you may be correct

Please tell me that’s photoshopped.

[DaveStone]

Perry said:

What convinces you that derma-rolling does anything?
What is it supposed to do?

It’s supposedly used by beauticians to stimulate the skin by pricking it with small needles to encourage cell turnover or something like that.

[DaveStone]

I was just looking at Cetaphil’s Daily Facial Cleanser list:

Water, Glycerin, Cetearyl Alcohol, Panthenol,
Niacinamide, Pantolactone, Xanthan Gum, Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate,
Sodium Benzoate, Citric Acid

I can’t seem to find much info on Pantolactone…must be a new ingredient. Funny, the old bottle I had from two years ago had parabens and sodium lauryl suflate.