[crillz]

Thanks ketchito, will give these things a whirl. I don’t have styrenee acrylates, dea or PQ so will simply do the other tasks.

[crillz]

@ketchito I had/still having exact same prob as you mention above using the same surfactants but with xanthan gum instead of ultrez. It looks great then days then weeks later I presume what is water starts rising from the bottom. I didn’t realise this for ages as I put the shampoo on white non see through bottles. Was so annoying.
I thought it was method, tried mixing, faster, slower, longer, tried letting the xantham slurry longer.
Are you saying using less capb and maybe a slightly higher pH could help?

[crillz]

Also think seems like a lot of stearic acid, to go with cetyl alcohol, not surprised it would be thick.

[crillz]

Aziz said:

Abdullah said:

Use more glutamate instead of Glucoside
Remove Glucoside, Glycerin, butter and oil 
Reduce caprylhydroxamic acid to %0.1 or %0.15

Xanthan gum hydrates instantly .

Are you sure Xanthan Gum hydrates instantly in water ?????
I don’t know , why I have to first mix Xanthan Gum with Glycerin,  wasting an extra step. 

Think it’s just an easier and quicker way to hydrate the gum. It’s called a slurry method.

[crillz]

Mainly talking about with making surfactant shampoo products but the question remains the same in all aspects

[crillz]

Sorry to bombard with the questions, just trying to find the reason for things. 
I was trying to follow the course textbook I’m studying where it says to have this percent of product of active ingredient.
7-10 percent anionic

3-5 percent non ionic

3-5 percent amphoteric

Is the reasoning to have less decyl glucoside (non ionic) because it is harder to thicken or something?

[crillz]

MarkBroussard said:

@Crillz:

Yes, reduce the Decyl Glucoside to the 2%-3% range.  I would recommend ditching the Xanthan Gum altogether and try thickening this with NaCl.

If you do retain the Xanthan Gum, you can substantially reduce the amount of Glycerin to 2.5%.

Actually, I might recommend you use a combination of NaCl and Polyquaternium-10 to thicken this concoction.

What is “Lexgard 1%” … there is a whole series of Lexgard products.

Lexgard natural. Thanks, will give it a whirl. Presume if I try the polyquat 10 I can’t use xanthan gum as  it’s cationic and anionic.

[crillz]

Cheers, don’t I need a non ionic surfactant tho? In this case it’s decyl glucoside. 

I understand the no oil part.

I have glycerin to help create the xanthan slurry. Are you suggesting I just put the xanthan in with the water/surfactants by itself?

And I thought I was just following recommended usage for preservative, is this not required?
Thanks.

[crillz]

As people already mentioned. Add an emulsifier and wind the sunflower back closer to 10 percent at least

[crillz]

Thanks jemolian, will trial this way.

[crillz]

Yeah dimethicone can give it a slight gloss. Right one may have cocoa butter in for the more yellow colour perhaps? Pretty similar to one I make except I like it a bit more harder, more buttery than creamy

[crillz]

If u have to use oil I’d keep it under 1%. Coconut oil would be one.

[crillz]

vhogiono said:

@crillz I tried 2% cetearyl and it seems much better for the thickness. Do you have any idea which is better between cetearyl and cetyl alcohol for conditioner? 

Not sure but we use 3% cetyl and it’s fine.

[crillz]

I norm work on 3 percent cetearyl

[crillz]

Just take a percent or 2 of the cetearyl alcohol out?

[crillz]

I may be missing something but isn’t this all oil phase? If so don’t need emulsifying wax or polysorbate. Or preservative.

[crillz]

Interested. Will it be recorded again for the diff timezones

[crillz]

I’m also looking to add a preservative after watching Phil and Perry’s talk which I found very useful.
I mainly dabble in creams so the pH range around 5.5. Up until now I just used Lexgard Natural (glyceryl caprylate / glyceryl undecylenate.
I will be doing some tests very soon but thought while the subject is hot I’ll pop the question in case I can either improve beforehand or not waste time with poor options during tests as they are lengthy. 
On hand I have Lexgard Natural as mentioned, Geogard 221 (benzyl alcohol and dehydroacetic acid) and will look into Liquid germall plus (propylene glycol, diazolidinyl urea and iodopropynyl butylcarbamate) it seems a winner above.
Does anyone see an issue with a combination of any 2 of these.
Also another question. When it was mentioned to use 2 preservatives I first presumed, ok go half and half. But am I right by saying I will need the proper recommended dosage of each because they are different ingredients.
Thanks.

[crillz]

Thanks ketchito, I thought citric acid did both. Will do with the preservative

[crillz]

Water is 75.2 percent sorry. Not 67.

[crillz]

Perry said:

@crillz - sorry! We have a worldwide audience so it’s hard to get a time that works for everyone. But be sure to sign up and catch the recording.

Completely understand and appreciate the learning possibilities Perry.
A question I wouldn’t mind asking is. If you are trying to make a moisturiser type product for commercial sale with a shelf life of 2 years are you better off leaving ingredients out such as soy lecithin, aloe vera and the likes or will a good preservative system make it not a worry.
I kind of think I may be answering my own question here but I wouldn’t mind the opinion of a pro. 

[crillz]

Interested in this but it’ll be 2am in australia. Look fwd to recording.

[crillz]

Very helpful legends. Love this site

[crillz]

I’m in Australia. Been searching but, I don’t think we need to register simple products. 
Yeah now I also agree it’s a good idea to list ingredients even on a gift. Thanks.

[crillz]

Yeah good call Graillotion, cheers.