[Bobzchemist]

@nasrins, the answer is, next time, use less base, and/or use enough co-emulsifiers that destroying the Potassium Stearate with acid won’t crash the emulsion.

[Bobzchemist]

@star90,

I can’t speak about the Rutgers program, except to answer your question about the business classes - yes, they’re relevant. You can make brilliant new formulas all day long, but if there’s no one to sell them or no capability to manufacture them, you really haven’t accomplished much. 

Think about this scenario - you make a wonderful new product, everyone you show it to is raving about how good it is…except the manufacturing people. They tell you that they can’t make it - the process engineer tells you that you’ll have to make it with a particular type of equipment that he doesn’t have. Now you have to convince the company to buy an expensive bit of equipment. How do you do that? Business courses should tell you how.

Also, formulation internships are one of the biggest reasons to go to grad school. Don’t go to a program that does not have them.

Lastly, experience as a lab tech does very little to help you get a job as a formulator. It’s not entry-level for a chemist - it’s below entry-level. It doesn’t do much more than a job washing glassware. If you don’t desperately, desperately need a job, don’t do it.

[Bobzchemist]

1) When I was working in powder cosmetics, we always put a preservative system in our pressed and loose powders. Always. I don’t think that there’s any way around it if you’re selling in the US.

2) What makes you think that there’s any moisture in FCO/CCT/MCT? Also, rancidity has nothing to do with preservation. Rancidity comes from oxidation, so you will need an anti-oxidant as well as a preservative. They do different jobs.

3) Germs do not cause mold. Yeasts and molds cause mold, on a product or elsewhere. Germs cause bacterial contamination. Hand/skin contact will absolutely contaminate a powder product with both, that’s why preservation is so very important.

4) Yes, you need a preservative if you use dimethicone for a binder. You need a preservative no matter what you use for a binder. The preservative is to kill the germs and yeast/mold that gets on your powder. The liquid binder has nothing to do with this. Dimethicone doesn’t need an anti-oxidant, though. Dimethicone needs much more work than organic oils to make a good binder, so you might want to consider that.

Bob

[Bobzchemist]

OK, I know I rambled a bit, but her’s my take:

2.  What type of discussion are not appropriate for this forum?

Beyond Spam or other discussions where you simply pitch your product or services, I think there are only a couple of things that are not appropriate. (Note: I would say that pitching your product or service as an appropriate answer to a question that’s been asked is OK. I also wouldn’t mind a thoughtful, informative post about a category, where your product/service is mentioned but is also compared to your competitors, i.e. “We just launched a new emulsifier!” is bad, while “There are several natural emulsifiers on the market today, x,y and z. Our new product, ABC is better, and here’s why” would probably be ok)

a.  Repeating discussions that have been previously answered - Please search the forum before starting a new discussion

b.  Starting discussions which have answers that can be found easily with a Google search - e.g. what is the melting point of Coconut Oil? (note: asking a question about how to find an answer is different - “How do I find out what the melting point of Coconut Oil is?” would mostly be a legitimate question the first time it’s asked)

c. Asking an unrelated question in a discussion answering someone else’s question. Please start a new discussion if you have a new question.

d. Asking us to solve problems without attempting to learn from the answers is not good. Neither is expecting us to solve a formulation problem without being willing to do any experimental work yourself.(The occasional “OMG, my emulsion just separated and there’s a project review tomorrow - what do I do!!” question will not be a problem)

e. Do not nag. If you post a question, and no one has answered it in two or three days, it’s ok to post a discussion asking why. Otherwise, please be patient. It’s none of our jobs to answer your questions - this is a volunteer effort, done solely out of the goodness of our hearts.

f. Do not demand answers or make statements without asking a question. “Give me the formula for cold cream” is probably not going to get any answers. “I need to know the formula for cold cream” is somewhat less rude, but still annoying (at least to me) and might not get answers. “Could someone please tell me the formula for cold cream” will probably get an answer. “Could someone show me how to find the formula for cold cream” would be even better.

[Bobzchemist]

30 minutes doesn’t sound like a very long dissolution time to me - and if you can’t increase your water temperature or your mixing speed, you are stuck with it. The only alternative would be to buy a less-concentrated grade.

[Bobzchemist]

But…some niche markets do care. The company I work for, Beaumont Products, is in the natural products niche - and judging from the volume of inquiries and complaints, our customers care about these things very deeply.

For larger, more mainstream companies also, a small but vocal minority of consumers can make a big difference eventually - see PETA.

[Bobzchemist]

Isn’t that a tax question? Most industrial-quality mixers, homogenizers, etc. have a minimum 20-30 year lifespan.

[Bobzchemist]

Are you in the US or the EU? (The regs are different)

[Bobzchemist]

@Rosa,

Almost all powder particles, nano-sized or not, will need a suspending agent to keep them from settling out of your emulsion. Also, your emulsion will need more robust emulsifiers than a non-pigmented one would.

[Bobzchemist]

@Rosa,

Almost all powder particles, nano-sized or not, will need a suspending agent to keep them from settling out of your 

[Bobzchemist]

1) Run a series of knock-out experiments, that way you’ll know for sure.

2) Are you sure that you’re putting enough energy into your emulsification process?

3) No, there is not a single database for compatibility. Some suppliers may call out particularly incompatible ingredients on occasion. Look on the bright side - if it was easy to figure out which ingredients are compatible/incompatible, they wouldn’t have to pay us.

[Bobzchemist]

My guess is that this will cost a lot of money if you just want to buy the lipsticks and never do business with that lab again - probably close to the cost of buying the equipment to make the prototypes yourself.

Seriously - 100 pcs of lipstick should take about 2-3 hours, start to finish, for 1 technician with a 24-place mold and a hotplate. Lip gloss, even less time and equipment.

However, that being said, there is much value to be derived from having the product development lab of the contract manufacturer that you will be using for your production runs make the prototype samples. That way, the manufacturer will already be acquainted with whatever little quirks your formulations have when it comes time to go into production. Most contract manufacturers will make prototypes at no charge, or will charge a fee that will be refunded when you place your first order.

What size production runs are you anticipating, or haven’t you got that far yet?

[Bobzchemist]

There is a mixture that inhibits vanillin browning - I think Agilex sells it.

[Bobzchemist]

I could, but I won’t. This is not a complicated subject to research, or one that requires specialized knowledge.

If you can post on this site, you can run a google search yourself. If you have specific questions about one of the tests, I will be happy to help.

[Bobzchemist]

Run a volatiles/solids and a water content test? How much info is needed?

[Bobzchemist]

I need a new car.

[Bobzchemist]

That’s nice. Is there a question or a request for help in there somewhere?

[Bobzchemist]

If you are going to stick with an o/w emulsion, you need the following added to your formula:

1) A suspending agent for the Zinc Oxide - I suggest Veegum Plus

2) a film former to hold the zinc oxide onto the skin - one of the Ganex’s, or something silicone based, maybe?

[Bobzchemist]

You can make an oil-in-water emulsion (with the right surfactants) by continuing to add water to oil until the water droplets get big enough that the emulsion ‘flips’ and the water becomes the continuous phase. Some people deliberately use this as a technique to enhance stability.

Look at this picture and imagine what happens as the blue water droplets get bigger:

[Bobzchemist]

Most discoloration has a chemical root cause - oxidation, ingredient interaction/reaction, etc.

Once you figure out what the root cause is, you can come up with a chemical and or packaging solution to inhibit it.

Heat-related breakdown of dyes may not have a solution, though…(pun intended)

[Bobzchemist]

@Ruben - I do not ever pretend to be infallible. You are correct, and I answered too quickly - thanks for catching that.

[Bobzchemist]

Preventing discoloration of what?

[Bobzchemist]

Probably the first thing to do is to make sure it works. Since no one wants to rub a leaf on their underarms, the first thing I’d check is if a kitchen-blender puree of the leaf works as a deodorant. Sorry, but you will have to test on yourself, pretty much. Keep the plant material refrigerated.

Next, make a mix of the puree and water, and boil it covered for about an hour - keep checking and replacing evaporated water. Filter out the plant residue until you have a visibly clear liquid. Test the liquid as a deodorant - if it works, congratulations. If not, then getting the active ingredient(s) out will be more complicated. Check back here at this point.

[Bobzchemist]

This is a huge project. 

Making and testing raw materials, and then using them in cosmetics, at least in the UK/EU, is controlled pretty strictly by regulation. 

Are you sure no company has made an extract of this plant yet?

[Bobzchemist]

To be sold where, exactly?