Bobzchemist
Forum Replies Created
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What did your silicone supplier sales rep suggest?I think you should drop the silicones, use organo-silicones only.
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Sorry, I didn’t realize you were just a hobbyist. But even for a hobbyist, 50g is way too tiny to be representational of anything your going to get when you make a batch large enough to actually shampoo hair with - it’s barely a thimble-full.
In simple terms, you should ignore almost everything that happens in a 50g batch. It’s like building a toy car with toothpicks and thinking that any information/results from doing that will translate into what would happen if you built a full size car.If you start making a more realistically sized batch, which is usually a kilogram, and you still have bubbles, buy a vacuum pump and a vacuum flask (with a stopper). Several minutes under vacuum will pull out bubbles from almost anything. -
You’re out of luck with VLT, as far as I can tell.What’s wrong with the LT?
http://www.theherbarie.com/Glucamate-LT.html
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I agree with Bill. Just list the oil and the Sodium Hydroxide as ingredients. Using a non-existent INCI name is asking for trouble.
However, there’s nothing to say that you can’t apply for an INCI name at the PCPC yourself. https://inci.personalcarecouncil.org/inci-app/ -
What’s the typical size of your production batch?
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Try mckernan:
Remember that you need to do stability/package compatibility testing on your new components, too. One area that could trip you up is the little flanges in the base of the lipstick container that hold the lipstick in - not all of the lipstick formulas will work with all of the flange/fin shapes and vice versa. Also, just because your stick holds right after initial insertion, that doesn’t mean that it will still hold after a month or two. -
I don’t know of any company that does this on a commercial level - mostly because, as a manufacturer, if you buy a pre-made blend, you are helpless to fix it if it comes in as the wrong shade. This is also a problem because if the company making the blend stops making it, you are in very big trouble, especially if you don’t know how to make the blends yourself.
If you’re a cosmetic chemist, you will be much better off learning how to blend colors yourself.If you’re a home crafter, just buy a set of mineral makeup shades wholesale and use those. You’ll be much better off doing that than spending 6 months or more learning how to colormatch. -
Also, the small segment of the population who do care about parabens tend to be very heavily concentrated in the segment of people who want “all-natural” products.
So, if you’re not marketing a “natural” or an “all-natural” product, and if your marketing department doesn’t care about having a “paraben-free” claim, there’s really no reason not to use parabens. All of the scientific evidence behind the paraben scare has been pretty thoroughly debunked/discredited. -
I think that every company starting out with a Private Label manufacturing company has to face this problem as their orders start to increase. With Private Label, since you are essentially buying an uncustomized finished product, the manufacturer has taken care of all the details for you. Typically, they even design and have the labels printed on your behalf. That certainly has an upside - you are avoiding all of the headaches of manufacturing - but there’s also a downside, in that you have no control and very little leverage in the manufacturer/customer relationship.
I would suggest that, if you decide that switching is in your future, you do a few things. First, don’t move all of your products at once. Consider starting with the two ‘simple” products to begin with.Determine what’s involved in moving to a Contract Manufacturer. Do you have any responsibility to do any of the needed testing yourself, or will they do it for you? Do you own the formula or do they? Will they source packaging/labeling for you or do you have to do that yourself? And so on…Also consider if you might be better off switching to a different private label manufacturer, rather than jumping into the deep end with contract manufacturing. Maybe there’s another outfit that will work with your finances they way you’d like them to?Lastly, don’t be too concerned about getting exact duplicates of what you’re selling. “New and Improved” has a very powerful allure for many customers… -
Check with the folks that sell particles, etc. to be suspended. I’d bet serious amounts of money that they have plenty of starting formulas for you to work with.
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Try a small batch putting your flax seeds in something like this first, before you boil them.
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Gelatin or pectin ought to work. Preservation will be critical. But I’d stick with the flax seed if at all possible, it’s unique as far as I can tell.
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Unfortunately, you’re going to have a big problem. High oil load, sprayable, and natural do not go together. You will have to pick any two.
Let us know what you decide and we can take it from there.(Personally, if I had to make this kind of product, I’d probably give up on the idea of an emulsion completely, and make a water-based product without any oils, except for a bit of conditioner) -
Can’t really talk about the manufacturer, even without a contract - you need a lawyer for that one.
For the two “simple” products - you shouldn’t need to reverse engineer much, if at all, unless they are OTC Drugs. If they are, you are probably stuck at your original supplier.The others can be either duplicated or reverse engineered. With duplication, a chemist is trying for the same performance, look, and feel without having to adhere strictly to the ingredient label. Reverse engineering has to use only the ingredient label ingredients, in as close to the original percentages as can be determined. Avomeen does a decent job of this, by the way.The decision of which route to take usually depends on how much you have to spend and on your need for an exact ingredient label match. Letting your new manufacturer do either one will probably be the most cost-effective option.Switching to another manufacturer will mean that you will have to repeat all of your stability and preservative efficacy testing on the new formulas. -
Almost anything is possible - if you spend enough money.
If you’re sure you can sell 500kg of product, then you need to find out if your manufacturer can filter/strain your batch cost-effectively. Filter socks aren’t that expensive, but they may clog too quickly. Better filtering is expensive. You might need to see if you can still get a good gel if you put the flaxseeds in a ffine mesh bag before you boil them. -
That’s sometimes true. To avoid liability, many of the used Silversons are sold without the rotor/stator assembly. Unfortunately for those of us looking to buy a used Silverson, the removed assemblies are destroyed or recycled.
The only place I’ve ever found to get the Rotor/Stator was direct from Silverson. If I remember correctly, they were between $800 - $1,500, depending on what you needed. -
Silversons are the gold standard because they scale up into production so well, and are extremely versatile. I have personally used Ross homogenizers, Admix Rotostats, Omni-Mixers, and IKA Ultra-Turax homogenizers at various times, and they all can get the job done, but not as well as a Silverson. If I had to choose from what I could find on Ebay right now, for under $2,000, I’d get the Rotostat.There are other places to get used equipment:
http://www.labx.com/item/silverson-bench-top-homogenizer-model-l4r-s-s/LV30787730
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It can be done on a small industrial/commercial level, just like you are doing it on a smaller scale.
How large a batch will you need? -
I would put preservatives in even an anhydrous product. I think that the dangers of being sued for not having a preservative are far greater than the danger of being sued because someone has a problem with the preservative you used.
Here’s another take on the benzene issue: -
Ouch. David, you have a problem.
Pumice is foamed, volcanic rock - I’ve never seen or heard of any that is any lighter than grey. Personally, I’d use the tiniest little bit of grey pumice, and much more of a white abrasive - that way you can put pumice on the ingredient label and call it a day. -
Could benzoic acid combine with vitamin C to create benzene in your base lotion? It is barely possible
http://colinsbeautypages.co.uk/do-sodium-benzoate-and-vitamin-c-react-to-form-carcinogenic-benzene/
But - here’s the question. Is the minuscule amount of benzene that is potentially in your lotion enough to be worried about? As Colin correctly points out, you are exposed to far more benzene each time you fill your car with gas than you ever would be exposed to benzene in your skin cream.The other point I’ll make is that making and using cosmetics involve trade-offs.There are NO preservatives in cosmetics that are perfectly safe. None. But…using unpreserved cosmetics is extremely dangerous - and selling unpreserved cosmetics is extremely illegal - go-to-jail level illegal. The folks selling cosmetics as “preservative-free” are playing tricks - they are using chemicals that act like preservatives, but that can technically be called something else.Hopefully, I’ve made the point that you need to have preservatives in your cosmetics. Now you have to choose which ones. You will need to consider the risks, and the benefits, involved with each one - and then see if you can buy a lotion base that uses the ones you prefer.
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Well, the fully manual way would be to use a large pastry bag.
You can add a bit more power with something like this:A more automated way would be to use a clay extruder, otherwise called a pug mill:Soap makers use something similarOr you could try a pastry/pasta extruder from the food industryand there are solutions from other industries:If you can reformulate, most companies selling this kind of product have come up with a way to make a flowable product that only sets up after it’s packaged. This also eliminates problems like air bubles. -
Well, like Mark said, if you’re using HEC as your sole emulsifier, that solves your stability problem right there - HEC is not an emulsifier.
If there’s nothing else in your formula for the NaOH to react with, and you added it at 70C or above, you’re probably right that some or all of your oils have been saponified, and that would certainly account for the improved stability, and yes, saponifying oils will certainly change the texture of your emulsion. To prove this, add the same amount of NaOH when your emulsion is at room temperature - at room temp. the saponification reaction takes weeks, if not months, to run to completion, so you won’t see an improvement in stability if saponification is what’s helping.There is absolutely zero correlation between pH and stability in emulsions generally.Without seeing your formula, the best thing I can suggest for adding stability without changing the texture much would be one of the Pemulens.Sadly, the least stable emulsions usually feel the best on skin. There is probably no way around the fact that stabilizing your emulsion will alter the feel/texture of your final product.