[bahey]

ngarayeva001 said:

Dimethiconol is very solid and almost doesn’t flow. For this reason in most cases it is supplied mixed with cyclopentasiloxane. Essential oils can be mixed into that solution but at a very tiny amount. Basically what is going on with this product, they took ready dimethiconol in cyclo blend, mixed essential oils with a little bit of alkyl benzoate to reduce cloudiness and added to silicones. Alkyl here helps essential oils to blend into silicones. They probably added more pure cyclopentasiloxane because those blends are rather concentrated and thick (that’s why it’s sprayable).  

Many Thanks Dear ngarayeva001 for your advice ,

Could you recomend the percentage of CBS added to Silicone . ?

What is the alkyl benzoat % should i use ? is this process needs any specialized mixer or blender ?.

if i use the majority of formula consist of Cyclopentasiloxane , is there any problem ?

thanks for your support , you look a very experienced in this field .

[bahey]

Pharma said:

The label reads “Alcohol Free Disinfectant Spray” and contains isopropanol… great marketing! It’s likely added for reduced surface tension and somewhat to boost antimicrobial efficacy of the quat. I wouldn’t hesitate to use a higher % IPA unless flammability is of great concern.

Furthermore, it states “Literally Spray & Go” but for that, given it’s used on utensils which shouldn’t be slippery, me personally, I wouldn’t use a quat in there.

I think the advice of @Gunther to use an ethoxylated surfactant instead of SLES is a very good one.

Since the spray will be in contact with plastic parts such as soft handles, I’d use a lot less fragrance since that one can “wear them out”, making them brittle or gluey/sticky.

Thanks pharma for your comments,
but this label is an old label with different ingredients, i use it only to show how the product offered 

many thanks again

[bahey]

Gunther said:

bahey said:

Hello everyone,
i am working on formula of surface cleaner with disinfectant , but i have found that it’s not good in cleaning specially laminated surfaces and glasses and remain with some residuals
, any suggestions?

formula
 Benzalkonium chloride 0.13 %
tween 80.          1%
Sles.                  2%
fragrance. ( oily )        1%
Ipa.                       8%
water.            Up to 100%

Any suggests ? Does the oil perfume cause this turbidity? 

Many thanks

Anionics like SLES aren’t compatible with quaternary ammonium cationics (benzalconium) as previously stated.

You can try using some ethoxylated alcohol both as as a surfactant, and to solubilize fragrance, hopefully doing away with Tween.

Consider ethanol. While IPA degreases better, it also smells worse than ethyl alcohol does.

Many thanks Gunther for your support.
how many should i add from ethoxylated alcohol ( % ) ?

[bahey]

Pharma said:

Why 8% IPA?

Benzalkolium leaves a slippery film on surfaces. Personally, I don’t like that: using it to clean the shower and don’t tell your wife -> someone is going to die today .

BTW is your product meant to be used pure or diluted?

My product is ready to use directly ( diluted)
used as hard surfaces and tools disinfectant mostly in. Barber shops
used 

[bahey]

Chemist77 said:

Remove SLES, use a nonionic surfactant like a glucoside. Use chelants like EDTA or GLDA, check Akzo as well. They have Berols which are extremely effective in such applications. Acusol PRO from Dow as well is another versatile product. Dowanol solvents are also common in such products.  
You cannot use SLES with a cationic quat for obvious reasons. 

Do you suggest me a simple formula ?
please consider, Whate type of perfume should i use with its emulsifiers?
thank again

[bahey]

Chemist77 said:

Remove SLES, use a nonionic surfactant like a glucoside. Use chelants like EDTA or GLDA, check Akzo as well. They have Berols which are extremely effective in such applications. Acusol PRO from Dow as well is another versatile product. Dowanol solvents are also common in such products.  
You cannot use SLES with a cationic quat for obvious reasons. 

Many thanks for your immediate help ❤️

[bahey]

Still trying……

[bahey]

Perry said:

@bahey - In my experience, Dimethicone has a measurable effect.  Guar Hydroxypropyltrimonium Chloride may work better that PQ7.  Also PQ10 is a good option.

,"y":1192,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2758}”>But just because I don’t find PQ7 particularly impressive in the formula I was working with doesn’t mean you will have the same experience. It’s used by a lot of formulators. Unfortunately, I think a lot of formulators just put ingredients in because they trust what suppliers are saying.

,"y":1306,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2872}”>The most important thing is to experiment and take measurements. Test your formulations (on a blinded basis) and see if you can tell a difference with and without an ingredient. Don’t rely on supplier information or even the declarations of formulators on this forum to shape your final opinions. 

,"y":1420,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":2986}”>And when you run experiments, come back here and post your results so we can all advance the science.

,"y":1477,"w":0,"h":18,"abs_x":384,"abs_y":3043}”>Cosmetic science suffers from lots of motivated research, anecdotes and secrecy. There is surprisingly little controlled, unbiased published research. A forum like this can change it but only if people are willing to experiment, learn, and share.

✊ Respect 
well said

[bahey]

Perry said:

We always used it as supplied. You don’t need a lot of polymer to get an effect.  Of course, I never found PQ-7 particularly conditioning in a shampoo formula.

could you suggest shampoo formula without anything you thinks it’s useless ?

[bahey]

what’s happened if i raised pq7 to higher ratios like 2-4 % ?

[bahey]

Thanks Perry for your usual Support

Sorry for any inconvenience I am just ask you as experienced formulators

[bahey]

Thanks for sharing Ngarayeva

[bahey]

NeilL said:

Here are a few links I use quite often for help.

https://www.happi.com/contents/list_formulary/

https://www.ulprospector.com/en/eu/PersonalCare

https://cosmetics.specialchem.com/formulations

Neil !!!

many thanks for this library

[bahey]

Perry said:

What hair dye products use acid black 107?  I couldn’t find any.

In the attached reference as you see Acid black 107 is the dye used
another product from france ?? use the same dye name ,
so I guessed that it is the dye could be used

[bahey]

Bill_Toge said:

acid dyes generally have very poor washfastness on hair, due to the fact hair carries a negative charge, as does the acid dye, leading to electrostatic repulsion; this is why the vast majority of temporary hairs dyes are basic (i.e. cationic) or neutral

Thanks ? Bill ,
do you suggest using another hair dye ?

[bahey]

Perry said:

Well, I guess the dye you’re using doesn’t work on hair. I recommend you find different dyes. 

For example, this product uses 

HC BLUE NO. 2, BASIC BLUE 99, HC YELLOW NO. 4, BASIC BROWN 16

I couldn’t find any product that uses Black 107

Thanks perry for your reply
i will test different dyes , but i have found many hair dye products use acid black 107 

[bahey]

Really i need your help ?

[bahey]

Any help

[bahey]

Microformulation said:

Not my favorite emulsifier, Igepal CO-530. More common in Industrial uses.

What they are describing is a micro emulsion using a surfactant. Sonimech is pushing this technology to my CBD clients. It would be unusually expensive and unnecessary in this case.

I would suggest that you do a short course/review on silicones. Tony O’Lenick (Siltech) has several online. Silicones are a large group encompassing materials with varied different molecular structures (linear, cyclic, etc.) We tend to over simplify the class. I believe in this case you will find that there are more appropriate silicones of other sub-classes.

Dimethicone will definitely kill your foam. Before you proceed, remember that the consumer has certain expectations in a shampoo, one being foam, This product would likely miss this benchmark.

Thanks micro ? 
what is alternative for Igepal ?

[bahey]

Belassi said:

It would result in a foam-free shampoo. Is that what you’re aiming for?

Some factory send me a sample which was very expensive because of adding silicon oil . 
It  produces  foam ( not much ) but it has avery good texture on hand and hair

[bahey]

Thanks ? 

[bahey]

How i dissolve silicon oil into shampoo ??!

[bahey]

Perry said:

What type of hair are you using?

If the hair is not damaged, it is not going to adhere as well. Try it with bleached damaged hair.

I have tried on bleached hair and normail white hair !
i gave it to hairdresser to test it on different hair but he told me that the dye doesn’t remain or adhere to hair anymore,
i am thinking ? is the dye dissolved well in benzyle alcohol or it need more time or heat to dissolve well and become active !

thanks Perry

[bahey]

I have added Pritarol

(HYDROGENATED WHEAT GERM OIL)

The results: no big difference ?
i am searching about something gives an oily texture to the shampoo 

[bahey]

Soexcited said:

Wait, since this is an acid dye won’t it need a metal salt?

You mean that i need to add salts ?