[Aziz]

Hand wash pH range 4.4 to 5.8 , face wash 4.5 to 5.5 , shower gel 5.5 . 
Shampoo 5.5 to 6.2 as per texts . 

[Aziz]

A face wash contains nearly 10% or less active surfactants , with mild ones .
Hand wash contains nearly 15% , a showergel contain above 20% activs . 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

SLS is added to improve SLES foam profile
https://www.happi.com/contents/view_features/2009-09-02/the-formulation-basics-for-personal-cleansers/

You can try a SLES only shampoo.
If irritation persists, then you can try a sulfate free shampoo.
If irritation still persists then you can try a cocamidopropyl betaine based very mild shampoo, or conditioner wash (co-wash).

In that case , how to thick a CAPB only shampoo ?

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

Out of sulfate free I find olefin sulfonate the best option: also very cheap (funny enough repackers in the UK sell SLES and SLS at a higher price), a decent foamer, easy to use, reacts well to thickeners (and even to salt a little bit), milder than SLES. The only thing, it’s yellow.

I am making AOS based shampoo but hurdles to make it thick . AOS based shampoo is eye irritant where SLS +SLES +CAPB based shampoo is less eye irritant .

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

Belassi said:

Dehyton G is amphoteric and gives good foam, you could try that?

Thanks. I will see if it’s available here.

CAPB seems to destabilize the cationic emulsion more than any other surfactant. I wonder if it’s because its salt content.

Does CAPB destabilize dimethicone shampoo also ?

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

@Aziz may I ask what’s the intended application?

If it’s for manual dishwashing
then a shampoo-like formula will work fine with much less irritation and cloudiness problems than LABSA.
SLES as the main surfactant, followed by a smaller amount of SLS (or neutralized LABSA), CAPB and even CDEA.

If it’s for liquid laundry or institutional dishwashing
Then LABSA 10-12%, SLES 4-8% and a small amount of CAPB (but not salt) will work fine.

Try to get the Certificate of Analysis from the suppliers to check their purities and concentration.
LABSA batches shouldn’t change color, and all those I’ve seen are dark brown, albeit with slighltly different hues.

@Gunther It is for kitchen dish washing . Customers want  ‘ Fairy ‘ like performance from it . Main purpose is to remove oil , fat , carbohydrates and dirt from dishes , plates etc. Now I am facing foaming performance . 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

Aziz said:

@Gunther

LABSA  8%
NaOH To pH 8.5
EDTA .2%
Na citrate .5%
SLES    4%
SLS  1%
TSP  1%
CDEA   3%
CAPB ( 30%)  4.5 %
NACL 1%
MPS .05%
Perfume. 2%
Colour 
Water to 100 

Add more SLES, but get rid of SLS
You can also add more LABSA with NaOH as required.
Some Ethoxylated alcohol helps with foam too.

Get rid of TSP as phosphates cause eutrophication of rivers and lakes and don’t add anything that LABSA or SLES doesn’t.

Did you cloud test this formulation?
“Cold weather Cloud Testing” can be as simple as putting the formulation in the fridge (without freezing) and see if it clouds on lower temps.
Lots and lots of beginner LABSA formulations cloud at low temps.

Get rid of salt and Na-citrate as they just rise cloud points.

RedPill said:

@Gunther Can we determine LABSA quality with its colour? I have seen Light transparent yellowish to Dark chocolate coloured LABSA.
Can we neutralize LABSA with Pottasium Hydroxide? (KOH) Is there any difference using than Sodium Hydroxide?
I have encountered seperation when adding TKPP with neutralized LABSA. Do you have any knowledge about this issue?

All 95%+ LABSAs I have seen are dark brown.
If it’s yellow then it’s either preneutralized, or diluted.

You can use KOH as it’s supposed to help rise cloud point temps.

I don’t like phosphates.
They cause eutrophication of lakes and rivers and don’t add anything useful to the formula that greener ingredients like LABSA, SLES or ethoxylated alcohols don’t.

Yes I did the cloud test , without TSP and citrate it is stable at 4°C . And if Gsalt (Na₂SO₄ ) is used , cloud point increases .
I already deduct TSP and citrate . I added SLS for foaming . Then I tried with 1% AOS to  achieve foam . It slightly increses foam .

I have two quality of LABSA , one is blackish and doesn’t give a clear and consistent dish wash and it was lower priced . A reddish one is fine , no issue with consistency , but I couldn’t achieve optimum foaming performance.  My LABSA (96%) is not preneutralized , I neutraled it with NaOH . I know amine oxides are good for foaming but it is not available . 
Oh another issue is some of the batches changing colour over time . 

[Aziz]

@Gunther

LABSA  8%
NaOH To pH 8.5
EDTA .2%
Na citrate .5%
SLES    4%
SLS  1%
TSP  1%
CDEA   3%
CAPB ( 30%)  4.5 %
NACL 1%
MPS .05%
Perfume. 2%
Colour 
Water to 100 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

For the same amount of LABSA (preferably <20% in the final formulation)
try neutralizing it with both NaOH and Sodium carbonate (in proper proportions to each other, so Google LABSA, NaOH and Sodium carbonate molecular weights)

I got a feeling that the strongly alkaline NaOH degrades LABSA, unlike the milder carbonate.

My dish wash is transparent,  thick and stable at 4°C but foam is not so well.  
How to achieve sufficient foam in final product ? 
Which of ingredients degrade foam ? 

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

The questions you should ask yourself:

1) Is there a proof that the above-mentioned foods have any beneficial effect for human skin in undiluted form?
2) If so, what compounds are responsible for beneficial effect (proteins, amino acids, minerals present in that food)?
3) What does pH 14 do to those compounds?
4) Unnecessary, however, would those potential beneficial compounds have any effect in a rinse off product?

May be his question about saponifications . If you use glycerin , milk or other things instead of water , definitely you will get a difference. Question is , if this difference make any benifits to the users. Soap with goat milk and glycerin is soft and smooth.  
When you bring the term ‘ Rinse off ‘ , you have to consider smoothness , softness etc.
Some people like oily Dove soap where as some people even use cloth washing soap , both do the job in this rinse off job . 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

Formaldehyde is banned as a preservative.
IMO parabens work fine.

What about DM DM hydantoin ,  Is it also banned ? 
I like MPS , it is effective and works in a good pH range . 

[Aziz]

@Perry I am so greatful to you for your valuable and indepth reply of this matter . I am completely aware of this and I am 100% agree with you .
I am owe to you in many ways .
I consciously avoid these Click to pay and affiliate marketers . 
I like to read indepth articles and reviews and don’t like thin books . 
You spend a lot of time to write this comment.  It can be include as an article in Chemist Corner . 
Again thanks a lot  . 

[Aziz]

Pharma said:

@Aziz Just a small note: Vitamins and provitamins require living tissue and most are usually only active when eaten. It’s like pouring gasoline over your car instead of into the tank. There is a small chance that when drowning your car in enough gasoline, some will actually diffuse into the tank. In addition, the slippery covering over you car does reduce air friction: From a twisted scientific point of view, it is hence proven that showering a car in gasoline has it run longer and faster. It’s the same with panthenol .

When sunlight fall on a car , it can produce vitamin D  . Oral dose of vitamin C is not sufficient to minimize the ROS of our skin . We have to  apply vitamin C on our screen to increase collagen production . A vitamin is a chemical substance which may have other functions rather than the functions of only vitamins . This is not the point , the point is , a text book classified it as a functional ingredients of shampoo . I upload the screen shot of this . Also many sites support this claim . Hope you understand the point of discussion . 

[Aziz]

ngarayeva001 said:

Aziz, there are so many companies that build entire marketing campaign for multiple products on false claims. Take collagen for example. Companies use the fact it’s essential for youthful skin and make products with collagen. Consumer thinks, well skin ages because losing collagen, so using moisturizer with collagen is a good idea. Now the problem: does loss of collagen leads to signs of aging? The answer is yes. Can you replenish collagen in your skin applying it topically? The answer is unfortunately no.

Definitely we should not put mud on our skin rather we should increase the production of collagen . Thanks for your valuable comment . 

[Aziz]

Hi @Perry , thanks for valuable remarks . 
Yes I am agree with you that any one can right anything on the internet . But in some point we have to believe something based on their knowledge,  their motives , their expression of quality etc ,  e g in this site You , Belassi , Markbroussard,  Ngrayava,  Catherine Pratt and many more.  
When I was facing difficulties in formulating shampoo I searched and study many of the ingredients. My problem was lack of ingredients,  In our country  only SLS , SLES ,AOS , CAPB , CDEA , POLY QUOTE 7 , Cetrimonium Chloride and Panthenol available.  But I have no panthenol . 
I searched about panthenol and found all most all sites claim about it’s benifits like humactant , thickening , shining and also nourishing etc . 
In Poucher’s Perfume and cosmetics book ,   he classified Panthenol  as a functional ingredients.  So it is not only a claim by healthyhairplus.com only . Furthermore this site expressed the benifits of Panthenol from a chemical point of view. They very nicely described the benifits of panthenol.  So how can I say  their claim is baseless.  
* I don’t know what methodology you follow to disprove all claims of Panthenol.  
* Based on false claim how a company build an entire product line with this ingredients.  
* How it is classified as a functional ingredients in Poucher’s book . 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

Oils, butters and cetyl alcohol serve no function in shampoos and they just reduce cleansing, foaming and will need an emulsifier to avoid separation.
Panthenol does nothing in a rinse off product and it just ends up in the drain.
Remove them or at least reduce them to claims ingredient levels.

That formula has no preservative, especially scary since aloe vera readily rottens itself.

Really Panthenol has nothing to do with rinse off shampoos ? 
But reality tales different .
Entire line of Pantene shampoo use this product . 
https://www.healthyhairplus.com/benefits_panthenol_hair_products_s/4245.htm

[Aziz]

Why  you need two polyquats ? 7 & 10 . 

[Aziz]

Download saponicalc or saponify from playstore . You have to learn procedure carefully . 

[Aziz]

Gunther said:

What’s the purpose, if any, of using PEG-400?
Is that actually Polyethylene glycol 400, or some other PEG derivative?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyethylene_glycol

PEG 400 is also called PEG 8 , it is used as a solubilizer or stabilizer . I use it in shower gel . It also act as a thickner . Here you can get more details . 
https://cosmeticsinfo.org/ingredient/peg-400

[Aziz]

UsmanAli said:

no sir 

So formulate with mild sufactants like Sarcosinate , Cocoglucoside , AOS , CAPB , SLES etc. To thicken you can add xanthane gum . Add glycerine as moisturiser and some vitamin E oil . 

[Aziz]

UsmanAli said:

sir without 12% SLES its not give enough foaming therefore i have add SLES 12% to increase foaming
i want to make soap base face wash to remove slippery feel 
please give me suggestion i m new in this line

So you can first make liquid castile soap base with KOH , Olive Oil and some castor oil and coconut oil . Have you ever made liquid castile soap ? 

[Aziz]

UsmanAli said:

i m making soap base transparent face wash but its become creamy after one day at room temperature 
formulation is
Water            to make 100%
ET-12(Acrypol Copolymer)       2%
Glycerine                       5%
PG                                 5%
Palmitic Acid                 6%
Myristic Acid                  6%
SLES                              12%
Cocobetain                    4%
Potassium Hydroxide      4.1%
and Preservative

Since it is soap based so why you add 12% SLES ? In a face wash formulation surfactants should be less than 10% .
Do you make your potasium soap base  first ? 

[Aziz]

mrinal said:

hello all,   i am struggling with making less sliperry handwash. my main problem is when anybody wash their hand with my handwash it takes more time to fully eliminated sliperry effect.                                                              here is my formulation: water -80%, sles70%active-13% ,dea-2%,pearl liquid-3%-pg-.5%, peg400-.5%  preservative-.4% , perfume -.2%salt-1.5%                   how can i reduce the sliperry effect while washing hand.any advice is appreciated .                                                                    

* Use a mixture of SLS : SLES 1:3 ; 
* Use CAPB 
* Deduct  DEA and examine pearl mix
* Dissolve your perfume with Alcohol (EA or MA )
* Use RH40 (Hydrogenated castor oil instead of peg 400 if needed ) 
* use less than .5% glycerine as moisturiser ) . 
Hope this will solve your problem . 

[Aziz]

Pharma said:

Take silicon oil, that’s already used to treat lice by A: suffocating them by filling their trachaea and B: making the survivors dry out by perforating the chitin exosceleton.

Silicon oil products (Hedrin, contains dimethicone and either cyclomethicone or nerolidol) are as effective as chemical insecticides containing for example permethrin.

4% Dimethicone solution also works as a nonpoisonous lice killer . 

[Aziz]

Ahmad said:

Hello everyone,
I want to know about the impact of perfumes on dish wash fromulation as i am facing to types:
1 thickness decreasing
2 Smell also drops by adding more surfactants(SLES or Labsa).
Can somebody tell me about water based and oil based perfumes? 

The perfume what I use in my dish wash , shop keeper call it ‘ Lemon 3 ‘ . I bought 1 litre but did’t see its lebel . It is water soluble , coz it finishing product remains transparent . 
I add perfume befor adding CAPB and salt to thicken to avoid this theckening problem